Russian invasion into Ukraine is imminent

[sk8knight]

Yep. That's why this isn't a conspiracy theory. We have labs like this all over the world including right here at home.

And yet implying that we do this for offensive reasons is wholly inaccurate. As is implying that we maintain an offensive distribution capability. Or maintain these in amounts that would be effective in any military distribution.

Most of our labs are for characterization purposes. People will die if we have to send suspect samples back to the states from places like Eastern Europe and Korea. Think about how long that takes just in transit and then it takes time to characterize, especially if it’s bacterial. Doing it local cuts the time to characterize an attack agent in half or more.

Also, it’s not unusual for someone, say the North Koreans or China, to scream bloody murder about bio labs in places where they couldn’t possibly exist or where there is nothing but empty space.

 

[DaShuckster]

Yep. That's why this isn't a conspiracy theory.

Bullshit.

And yet implying that we do this for offensive reasons is wholly inaccurate.

Exactly. This bunk comes from the nutjob Qanon gang and the Russians.

 

[Crazyhole]

And yet implying that we do this for offensive reasons is wholly inaccurate. As is implying that we maintain an offensive distribution capability. Or maintain these in amounts that would be effective in any military distribution.

Most of our labs are for characterization purposes. People will die if we have to send suspect samples back to the states from places like Eastern Europe and Korea. Think about how long that takes just in transit and then it takes time to characterize, especially if it’s bacterial. Doing it local cuts the time to characterize an attack agent in half or more.

Also, it’s not unusual for someone, say the North Koreans or China, to scream bloody murder about bio labs in places where they couldn’t possibly exist or where there is nothing but empty space.

I have to disagree with the idea that we don't have amounts that could be used militarily. Just like everyone else, we certainly do. Its just another form of mutually assured destruction that maintains balance between political powers.

 

[DaShuckster]

I have to disagree with the idea that we don't have amounts that could be used militarily.

SMH. There is a Grand Canyon-wide difference between biolabs around the world housing potentially hazardous bio-materials and ones allegedly designed to weaponize them for an offensive strike. It was originally a QAnon conspiracy but Russia happily latched on to it.

The use of chemical weapons is a war crime -- but then again, so is bombing a hospital.

 

[goodknightfl]

SMH. There is a Grand Canyon-wide difference between biolabs around the world housing potentially hazardous bio-materials and ones allegedly designed to weaponize them for an offensive strike. It was originally a QAnon conspiracy but Russia happily latched on to it.

The use of chemical weapons is a war crime -- but then again, so is bombing a hospital.

Agree. That being said, I have no doubt those labs still are there and hold nasty stuff, which Russia also has in Russia. I think Wuhan should be enough to teach the world we need to destroy the stuff and not make more of it. People like Putin would happily use it to cement their own power, in spite of millions that would die, just like Fauci was happy to use it to enhance knowledge that had little upside, in spite of millions that died for the usless knowledge gained.

 

[Cubs79]

What's Biden going to do about it? Nothing. We have Harris laughing about refugees and completely clueless giving the address with the polish president. There is no fear for Putin.

What would you like him to do about it? We are sanctioning the shit out of them. DO you want us to send troops?

 

[Cubs79]

Maybe don't say we aren't going to do this and that. Unless we can completely bankrupt his war machine he is just going to continue.

We should approve all the oil new permits and maybe offer finance companies secured government backing of the projects. Get oil inventories way up and get oil to $60 and crush Russia.

None of that really answers my question. Oil permits arent going to make Putin stop and we are already crushing Russia's economy. Russia's economy will likely never be the same for years, if ever. WE can either destroy their economy, send troops, or both. Would you prefer him to send troops? If the answer is yes, I disagree with you, but at least it is an answer. If the answer is no, then I am not sure what else you really want.

 

[UCFBS]

View embedded media

Where there is smoke........

If you think that a once and possibly future enemy might use a weapon against you, would it not be prudent to develop defensive measures against said weapon?

Yep. That's why this isn't a conspiracy theory. We have labs like this all over the world including right here at home.

And yet implying that we do this for offensive reasons is wholly inaccurate. As is implying that we maintain an offensive distribution capability. Or maintain these in amounts that would be effective in any military distribution.

Most of our labs are for characterization purposes. People will die if we have to send suspect samples back to the states from places like Eastern Europe and Korea. Think about how long that takes just in transit and then it takes time to characterize, especially if it’s bacterial. Doing it local cuts the time to characterize an attack agent in half or more.

Also, it’s not unusual for someone, say the North Koreans or China, to scream bloody murder about bio labs in places where they couldn’t possibly exist or where there is nothing but empty space.

I have to disagree with the idea that we don't have amounts that could be used militarily. Just like everyone else, we certainly do. Its just another form of mutually assured destruction that maintains balance between political powers.

You're both right.

The problem is that the outright 'denials' aren't going to agree with 'common sense.'

At the same time, Russia is completely hypocritical.

 

[Cubs79]

Not really asking for troops. I'm saying he has no fear of the United States getting directly involved. Or NATO for that matter. We are publicly going back and forth about a fighter jet leaving which base. So Putin knows all countries are playing scared of him.

I am sure he knows nobody wants ww3 yes, but it also isnt as if our policies and positions cant change if they need to, and he also knows that.

 

[DaShuckster]

Putin knows all countries are playing scared of him.

Or here’s another thought: maybe they don’t want to trigger World War III.

For all the Russian bravado coming from Putin’s government — as well as their mouthpieces in this country — we are successfully trashing their economy. Whether or not Russian troops take over Kiev, Russia won’t be recovering from this debacle anytime soon.

 

[UCFloridaTech]

Or here’s another thought: maybe they don’t want to trigger World War III.

For all the Russian bravado coming from Putin’s government — as well as their mouthpieces in this country — we are successfully trashing their economy. Whether or not Russian troops take over Kiev, Russia won’t be recovering from this debacle anytime soon.

Good point, concur with mid-long term effect of sanctions and business pull-outs (he he, I said pull outs)...

What I can't get my head wrapped around is the fact that we're all hearing that we don't want direct conflict with Russia, so we can't do 'x' ...we're now sending hardware (javelins, stingers, etc)... How is that different from aircraft?

...and what is Putin goes on tv and says, any more javelin support, and we'll consider that direct engagement?

 

[Crazyhole]

Huh.

 

[Crazyhole]

"If we respond, it's WW3". So, what are those troops supposed to do, just stand there?

 

[Crazyhole]

Who do we believe on this one?

 

[sk8knight]

We signed onto the Biological Weapons Convention of 1972 and have been staunch advocates of maintaining its principles since. I can tell you from actual work experience that the US does not take this international convention and associated penalties lightly. I have yet to see an offensive capability in any budget, strategy, or plan of ours for the last 20 years. I have personally witnessed the culture of people and organizations that research and develop biodefense capabilities and none of them allow for the offensive use of such materials.

Let me make this as simple as possible. The US is not developing bio agents for offensive use. Period.

 

[Crazyhole]

We aren't a serious people.

 

[sk8knight]

View embedded media

We aren't a serious people.

I wonder how different the Vietnam War would’ve been if LBJ had gotten the rock bands and poets on board before we went in.

 

[UCFBS]

What I can't get my head wrapped around is the fact that we're all hearing that we don't want direct conflict with Russia, so we can't do 'x' ...we're now sending hardware (javelins, stingers, etc)... How is that different from aircraft?

Hand-held portables in 2-man transportable crates is one thing ...

Aircraft that either need to be flown in (assembled/usable) or broken down into components and railed/trucked, then re-assembled, is another. Flying them in looks like we're 're-enforcing' their capabilities. Breaking them down and re-assembling them not only takes expertise on both sides, but

...and what is Putin goes on tv and says, any more javelin support, and we'll consider that direct engagement?

Small arms and infantry sales is one thing. Serious, $10M+ military hardware gets trickier, especially when it has to be flown/railed in.

E.g., does Russia have the purview to bomb trains-tracks that carrying these stuff that could also carry humanitarian goods (foods, medicines?).

 

[DaShuckster]

What I can't get my head wrapped around is the fact that we're all hearing that we don't want direct conflict with Russia, so we can't do 'x' ...we're now sending hardware (javelins, stingers, etc)... How is that different from aircraft?

Aircraft from NATO represents a more 'in your face' direct confrontation that could easily escalate. More importantly, it could be argued that the support that the US and its NATO allies are providing Ukranine is just as critical, if not more so, in an urban, gorilla-type war setting.

That is one of the lessons Putin is learning the hard way, this ain't your granddaddy's European war anymore.

 

[goodknightfl]

We signed onto the Biological Weapons Convention of 1972 and have been staunch advocates of maintaining its principles since. I can tell you from actual work experience that the US does not take this international convention and associated penalties lightly. I have yet to see an offensive capability in any budget, strategy, or plan of ours for the last 20 years. I have personally witnessed the culture of people and organizations that research and develop biodefense capabilities and none of them allow for the offensive use of such materials.

Let me make this as simple as possible. The US is not developing bio agents for offensive use. Period.

I am sure that it is perfectly safe working with those materials just like Wuhan had no problems handling bat Virus.

 

[UCFBS]

We signed onto the Biological Weapons Convention of 1972 and have been staunch advocates of maintaining its principles since. I can tell you from actual work experience that the US does not take this international convention and associated penalties lightly. I have yet to see an offensive capability in any budget, strategy, or plan of ours for the last 20 years. I have personally witnessed the culture of people and organizations that research and develop biodefense capabilities and none of them allow for the offensive use of such materials.

Let me make this as simple as possible. The US is not developing bio agents for offensive use. Period.

I am sure that it is perfectly safe working with those materials just like Wuhan had no problems handling bat Virus.

Accidental and intentional are two hugely different things. Most countries are taking the '72 agreement seriously.

China ... I'm not so sure, but ... time will tell.

 

[Crazyhole]

Surprise surprise.

 

[DaShuckster]

Accidental and intentional are two hugely different things. Most countries are taking the '72 agreement seriously.

As they should.

 

[Crazyhole]

 

[UCFloridaTech]

...it could be argued that the support that the US and its NATO allies are providing Ukranine is just as critical...

This is my point... Effective Military hardware, whether javelin or mig seems just as "involved".

 

[UCFloridaTech]

Hand-held portables in 2-man transportable crates is one thing ...

Aircraft that either need to be flown in (assembled/usable) or broken down into components and railed/trucked, then re-assembled, is another. Flying them in looks like we're 're-enforcing' their capabilities. Breaking them down and re-assembling them not only takes expertise on both sides, but


Small arms and infantry sales is one thing. Serious, $10M+ military hardware gets trickier, especially when it has to be flown/railed in.

E.g., does Russia have the purview to bomb trains-tracks that carrying these stuff that could also carry humanitarian goods (foods, medicines?).

It's got to be the optics of the MIGs... Javelins ain't cheap, and I've read a lot have been sent. Google the unit cost of those mofo's.

 

[DaShuckster]

This is my point... Effective Military hardware, whether javelin or mig seems just as "involved".

It all comes down to plausible deniability. War planes are harder to shrug your shoulders and say, "Geez, I dunno how they got them!"

Given our dead-on intel that Russia would plant a false flag to justify their invasion to their people, this report is worrisome:

'Fabricated incident' by Russians could spark larger war in Western Europe, former Navy intel officer warns

Former intelligence officer warns Russia could still seek to expand war beyond Ukraine.

www.foxnews.com

 

[sk8knight]

I am sure that it is perfectly safe working with those materials just like Wuhan had no problems handling bat Virus.

Most biological weapons aren’t fatal and are targeted towards disability and have effective treatments. You just have to know they’re being employed. This involves going out in person to collectors around the area every 24 hours and pulling the liquid reservoir and sending that to the labs. That is manpower intensive, almost all of the collections are negative, and it is the lion’s share of what a biodefense lab does.

There are some that are fatal and nearly fatal agents and we researched treatment vectors for them here in the states at Ft Detrick before the CDC pulled their BSL 4 accreditation in 2019. We also research these at the CDC.

Wuhan is a health research facility performing gain of function testing. This takes naturally occurring agents and modifies them to try to see how bad they can get in order to inform policy decisions and present the underlying question that granted research will answer. None of this is nefarious unless you believe that gain of function testing is more dangerous than helpful. The scandal behind Wuhan is not that they were doing it but that our Government (NIAID) has tried to deny its role in the research.

 

[UCFBS]

It's got to be the optics of the MIGs... Javelins ain't cheap, and I've read a lot have been sent. Google the unit cost of those mofo's.

Okay, Javelins aren't cheap. But yes, the optics are a bigger detail. Much easier to hide manpads.

 

[UCFBS]

View embedded media

Sigh ... this is getting old.

 

[DaShuckster]

One of the reasons I was a Reagan Republican back in the day was because of the party's hard line stance against 'The Evil Empire.' I recall the euphoria this country felt about "the good guys winning" the day the Iron Curtain fell.

But it's been pretty disquieting to watch a ruthless autocrat like Putin arise above the subsequent 'Mob Boss' turmoil to come to power -- and then remain there. Worse yet, it's been truly bizarre in recent years to see Republican support grow for Putin and Russia. To me, that's akin to UCF fans supporting the USF football program for crying out loud. It's felt like a "Welcome to the Twilight Zone" sort of deal.

So if there's anything good to come out of the appalling death and distruction we're seeing in Ukraine, it's been the way Putin's invasion has finally united most of the country.

Except for Tucker Carlson and and the usual smattering of fringe conspiracy types, it really feels like the vast majority of Democrats and and the vast majority of Republicans support the Ukrainian freedom fighters in their fight for their lives against Russia. It's been great to see. I only wish it didn't take something so horrible to make it happen.

One thing you can be certain of, Putin NEVER, EVER expected to see this.

 

[Crazyhole]

One of the reasons I was a Reagan Republican back in the day was because of the party's hard line stance against 'The Evil Empire.' I recall the euphoria this country felt about "the good guys winning" the day the Iron Curtain fell.

But it's been pretty disquieting to watch a ruthless autocrat like Putin arise above the subsequent 'Mob Boss' turmoil to come to power -- and then remain there. Worse yet, it's been truly bizarre in recent years to see Republican support grow for Putin and Russia. To me, that's akin to UCF fans supporting the USF football program for crying out loud. It's felt like a "Welcome to the Twilight Zone" sort of deal.

So if there's anything good to come out of the appalling death and distruction we're seeing in Ukraine, it's been the way Putin's invasion has finally united most of the country.

Except for Tucker Carlson and and the usual smattering of fringe conspiracy types, it really feels like the vast majority of Democrats and and the vast majority of Republicans support the Ukrainian freedom fighters in their fight for their lives against Russia. It's been great to see. I only wish it didn't take something so horrible to make it happen.

One thing you can be certain of, Putin NEVER, EVER expected to see this.

Please, tell us more about the 1970s when any of this was relevant. And please follow that up with your solutions to this problem.

 

[UCFBS]

One of the reasons I was a Reagan Republican back in the day was because of the party's hard line stance against 'The Evil Empire.' I recall the euphoria this country felt about "the good guys winning" the day the Iron Curtain fell.

This tells me everything about you, and why you throw out the logic.

Spoiler: For those of us who are objective

I was never a Reagan Republican, and my parents taught me to think for myself. That's why I really got tired of the Democratic party in the '90s as much as the Republicans, because DOMA and even as late as 2008, Obama and Hillary going 'against my religion.'

The Democratic party is about what is popular.

Once the Democratic party started throwing journalists in jail over bullshit, and calling for censorship, in the mid to late '00s, that was it for me. Obama utterly covering-up what he did to free speech in 2009, that came out after his re-election in 2013, was it for me.

Trump is a popularist too, and that's why he helped the Republican party gain minorities more than any other Republican candidate this century. He's just as wrong for doing it as well. But the Squad is here, and they are just as bad as Trump. Popularists can be grossly ignorant, and still popular.

Heck, Trump even admitted this when he said, "I could shoot someone!" That's basically became Americans are so tired of the establishment, both left and right. The GOP only embraced Trump when it was inevitable he was unstoppable. Heck, McCain even helped originate the Steele Dossier non-sense, before Hillary and the DNC!

Now my father has gone more rabid Conservative in his old age, while my mother more come over to my Libertarian side, especially on LGBTQIA issues. My father isn't against LGBTQIA rights, but he does get tired of the special interest, of which, he's 50% right, 50% wrong.

The most anti-LGBTQIA generating move the Democratic party ever made was commuting Manning's sentence.

Even that utterly pissed off not only me, but several serving Transexuals I know. It only got worse when Manning's lawyers said she couldn't serve time in jail because she had 'complications due to transgender reassignment surgery.' That basically ****ed the argument there is no 'readiness issue' with surgery.

The left talks out of both of their holes, and Americans are tired of it, especially when they are pushing a 'Ministry of Truth' and destroying freedoms ... unless you're a big business and lobbyists. They you can do what the **** you want. This idea that the GOP is the only party that is for big business is getting old.

The GOP is for big business, no argument. But the GOP is also for small business. The DNC is not at all. Not a surprise, my father has run a small business almost his entire life. So I have trouble disagreeing with him at times ... especially after the Clinton administration's IRS ****ed him. But at least everyone learned from that, so Obama's attempts to have the IRS **** small businesses again failed.

But it's been pretty disquieting to watch a ruthless autocrat like Putin arise above the subsequent 'Mob Boss' turmoil to come to power -- and then remain there. Worse yet, it's been truly bizarre in recent years to see Republican support grow for Putin and Russia.

Full stop! No, there is questioning of things, not support for. Journalists have a right to question. That's why we have free journalism. The Mainstream Media gave 0 ****s for questioning Ukraine until the Anzo shit re-hit, again, and the sad thing is ... the Anzo of 2022 isn't the same as 2014.

Why Azov should not be designated a foreign terrorist organization

The authors of a recent New York Times op-ed produce no clear proof of ongoing links between American right-wing terrorists and a unit within Ukraine’s Interior Ministry.

www.atlanticcouncil.org

Everyone you disagree with is a Neo-Nazi now. Kyle Rittenhouse? White supremacist! He doesn't deserve civil liberties! **** him! (sigh ... )

To me, that's akin to UCF fans supporting the USF football program for crying out loud. It's felt like a "Welcome to the Twilight Zone" sort of deal.

Yep, exactly your problem. "nuff said.

 

[DaShuckster]

I was talking about AMERICA coming together over Ukraine.

It should go without saying that this board is a whole different deal.

 

[UCFBS]

Ukraine hates Harris with her laughing about refugees.

View embedded media

She's literally unprepared. That's not uncommon with someone as green to controversy outside a courtroom situation. You can see it. The laugh was probably the worst thing she could have done. Harris is not used to serious situations and journalists not favoring her. Now she is ... on the world stage.

Worst time to gain experience and exposure. I actually feel for her. I really do.

 

[UCFBS]

She is clearly in over her head.

View embedded media

It's like she's being coached, and is overwhelmed. Man, I really feel for her. She might actually be getting 'over-coached' at this point. Maybe it's time for her to admit how she really feels, and ... that would go a long way. I'd definitely totally respect her.

 

[sk8knight]

80 million democrat votes elected this Administration. Intentionally.

 

[DaShuckster]

80 million democrat votes elected this Administration. Intentionally.

Hmmmm...maybe that's because the last President sided with Putin. Intentionally.

 

[UCFBS]

Hmmmm...maybe that's because the last President sided with Putin. Intentionally.

^^^ This is why you're a demonizing partisan.

The last President sided with non-interference. I didn't agree with him sometimes, but ... yeah, that was his policy. Guess what? It worked well enough. Even North Korea killed a lot of anti-US propoganda.

You know what doesn't work so well? Calling someone a killer and pandering to the US Mass and Social Media, while making your country and allies dependent on such a 'killer.'

Americans aren't dumb. They don't like Putin. But they tired of this bullshit your peddling. The left has become the pro-foreign dependency, pro-war hawk attitude. At least Biden isn't a war-hawk, thankfully.

That's the one thing saving us right now, Biden isn't a war-hawk. His party on the other hand ... and yes, there are plenty with the GOP that would join them too. Trump was one of the least pro-war GOP Presidents.

 

[DaShuckster]

You realize the Russian thing was a hoax, right?

LOL. Did you ever stop and wonder about the number of Trump associates who were sentenced to prison on this 'hoax?'

The last President sided with non-interference.

LOL. Sided with "non-interference?"

I could have sworn Trump announced to the world in Helinski that he agreed with that ruthless murderer ruling Russia over our own intelligence agencies. Who does THAT for crying out loud??!? And YOU have the gall to talk about bullshit peddling.