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School Shooting - Coral Springs

The "allow teachers to carry" idea is dead on arrival because:
1. They'll need to find teachers at every school that want to be responsible for a weapon (I heard teachers are mostly liberals)
2. Somebody has to buy or subsidize liability insurance for the teachers that participate (law of probabilities indicate that a few bullets will be fired by mistake)
3. Some (most?) parents will freak when they know their kids' teacher is packing
4. Teachers wil be blamed if something happens and they fail to stop it (probably part of #1)

Also, kids being kids, they'll probably try to open the boxes where the guns are stored. They'll either succeed and get a loaded weapon or fail and activate the alarms with the corresponding lock-down and expulsions. Weapons will need to be stored inside an office or teacher's lounge where an adult is always present.
 
Here is a quick 5 min congressional hearing from a survivor of the Luby's Massacre. Many of us have sickening memories of this incident from 1991 but for those that weren't around and/or way too young to remember: Psycho drove his pick-up truck thru the window of a TX Diner and then killed 23 people, wounded another 27 before police were on the scene. Killer ended up committing suicide when he was finally confronted by police. This was the country's worst mass shooting till 2007 (Va Tech).

What could have been...

Chilling....

(You will recognize some congressmen STILL in power some 27 years later)
Didn't she become a Texas Representative over this?
 
This is why I was saying in the Dungeon thread that you can’t assess the SRO’s actions without more information. And that Sheriff Israel threw Peterson to the lions to protect himself after the town hall turned the tide of public opinion against him.

Everything changes for those responders upon word of an injured person on the football fields. If what Peterson said was true, and the other deputies’ actions seem to corroborate this, then the Sheriff’s got some ‘splainin to do. I’m thinking that radio logs or dispatch recordings would shed some good light on this as well.
 
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The supermajority of law enforcement say otherwise. Their main debate is over whether it should be concealed carry on-person, or under lock'n key, but available.

Law enforcement has repeatedly stated that in both schools, and in public areas, neither police nor uniformed security, can be everywhere. An armed, civilian populace is the biggest deterrence.

Which goes back to what law enforcement complains about most ... the federal 'gun free zone' law. Before it passed, school shootings were rare. After it passed, they've been pretty consistent. Because schools are some of the least defended and some of the most dense.

But don't listen to law enforcement. Or find some top law enforcement officer who is a politician. Everyday policie offers, along with the ATF, DEA, FBI agents I know, will tell you otherwise.
 
Why is allowing a teacher to exercise a constitutional right so awful? If you go into public, you are in contact with/around people every day that are carrying.
Because chemmie is a simpleton who can’t get beyond “guns bad.” Which then can only equate to “more guns badder.” That’s as far as his advanced liberal intellect can delve into the topic.
 
Why is allowing a teacher to exercise a constitutional right so awful? If you go into public, you are in contact with/around people every day that are carrying.
Well, I can put an asterisk on that.

It is a publicly funded location. Granted, I think public commons should not inhibit people from being able to do anything, especially anything guaranteed by the US Constitution. And if the state issues a concealed carry permit, that's an additional grant. But that all said ...

Law enforcement believes administrators and teachers must have further training and associated permits, and I tend to agree. I trust law enforcement, as they deal with criminal violence day-in, day-out, just like we trust the fire department, who deal with fires day-in, day-out.

I'm sure lawyers for school districts also agree, for liability reasons. Lawyers started this in the late '80s, and screwed it up in the '90s, causing politicians to artificially and exponentially increase the number of school shootings once they were 'gun free zones.'

But I think it requires more than just a civil right. Because that's what law enforcement says too.

But yes, I get tired of the left-wing ignoring law enforcment.
 
Here is a quick 5 min congressional hearing from a survivor of the Luby's Massacre. Many of us have sickening memories of this incident from 1991 but for those that weren't around and/or way too young to remember: Psycho drove his pick-up truck thru the window of a TX Diner and then killed 23 people, wounded another 27 before police were on the scene. Killer ended up committing suicide when he was finally confronted by police. This was the country's worst mass shooting till 2007 (Va Tech).

What could have been...

Chilling....

(You will recognize some congressmen STILL in power some 27 years later)
Didn't she become a Texas Representative over this?

Yes, she served 10 yrs in Austin.
 
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Which is why law enforcement advocates certification and other, school carry-specific administration. That's why I have never advocated carry on schools as a Constitutional civil right.

Why? Because I agree with law enforcement on this matter, who disagrees with both the far left and far right. I cannot help if if the Progressive US Mainstream Media does not bother with that detail.

As with everything, when people have issues, it's up to others to report it -- and in the case of 'those entrusted,' they must report it as their oath, no matter how small.

That said ...
  1. Whether teachers can legally carry or not on school grounds, any teacher -- like any criminal -- who wants to bring a gun for criminal purposes -- will be able to bring one

  2. Teachers don't go killing kids with firearms at school. They virtually never did before the '90s 'gun free zones' federal law. They won't if certified for school ground concealed carry either.
Not recognizing the simple obviousness of the truth of #1 is why the 'libtard' name sticks. I don't use it, but I can understand why others do.
 
for all the gun grabbers in the water cooler, do you think more people are killed in this country with guns than are saved by guns?
 
for all the gun grabbers in the water cooler, do you think more people are killed in this country with guns than are saved by guns?
Hard to measure, because we only track statistics for 'lawful homicides.' We cannot track 'deterrent,' although Australia's post-'96 general statistics on violence are interesting.

That said, when organized crime is removed, the unlawful v. lawful homicides are extremely close. Accidents are also much lower, and one of the least rates of any thing in a home. Why?

Because Americans treat a firearm as dangerous, and secure them proper ... far better than nearly all other nations, per-capita home with a gun, sadly enough.
 
30,000 people die every year from guns. most are suicides, which if you take those out is anywhere from 12,000 to 16,000 gun deaths a year.

the cdc did a study and found that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year.

so even if you take the full 30k gun deaths per year, they used defensively 16 times more.
 
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Can you tell me how many people these AR15 carrying church members have killed?
After something like that, FBI should be taking their guns. When you think you need to do something like that, you need a psychiatric evaluation
 
priests would bless warriors and their weapons before battles all the time in the past. this is nothing new.

i find it a little weird, but its not my religion and it doesnt affect me.
 
Well, it's starting.

The small arms industry in the US is going to largely collapse. Even those with major, federal contracts are starting to have financial woes, especially since small arms have the worst margins in any ordinance-related manufacture.

Both large corporations and some entire industries, as a block, are moving against anyone even remotely associated with firearms. They don't even have to make or sell firearms. If they are associated, they are targeted. It's been a mass effort that is very well coordinated, and it's going to suffocate all the major, 2nd Amendment supporters.

What will be left will be sparse, small mom'n pop outfits that will come and go as they face litigation and issues from well funded organizations. As Bernie Sanders pegged it before, the end of gun manufacturing in the US. And we already have bans on most things from outside the US.

Which means the right will be difficult to exercise in most of the US.

I have to give the Progressives major credit ...
And Reason.COM for pointing this was going to happen years ago ...

Totalitarian societies start -- not regimes, again, societies start (people blame the Nazis and Hitler, but it started before them in Germany, as a society) start -- by uniting behind an idea, and then suffocating any and all counters -- often by blaming 1 entity, and anyone who associates with them -- by just flat out repeating falsehoods until they stick. They go after emotions and fears, ensuring then logic goes out the window with their statements that defy science and statistics.

Ironically, I just had a conversation at work with someone here in Alabama that is just spewing things. I couldn't get him to understand that semi-automatic actions in pistols and rifles are similar, or in some cases, exactly the same, and are not military, selective fire capable.

He had also never heard of the USCCA, while he couldn't stop talking about the NRA. He even had that information wrong. I just shook my head. The US media says it enough times, people start believe things that just aren't true.

This is how it ends. After guns it will be anything else the Progressives don't like. And then, decades from now, they'll break apart, and then start fighting themselves. I see abortion being one of the first things to go among Progressives.

This year, 2018, is the year I'm hanging up my civics, libertarianism and other things. All I'm doing with my engineering background, civics knowledge, use of AFT, CDC, FBI and GAO statistics, and other application of logic is upsetting most of my colleagues on-line.

It's 'herd mentality.' On an individual basis, I can reach people. But in a herd, or the increasing number of people who believe what they want to believe after hearing or reading it, and refuse to associate with anyone who disagrees, are becoming impossible to reach.

The 1st Amendment is next. The Press will be their own undoing, sadly enough. We've already thrown reporters in jail, and both Fox News and CNN have had endured the wraith of Presidents. A few media executives will look at it from a business and liability standpoint, and that will be that.

BTW, if you haven't seen it, highly recommend Kill the Messenger (2014). Some might look at it as an anti-Reagan film, but it's actually an anti-US media one. The US government, in cohorts with the US media, has instigated far, far more organized and sustained crime than the everyday, average American citizen.
 
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Well, it's starting.

The small arms industry in the US is going to largely collapse. Even those with major, federal contracts are starting to have financial woes, especially since small arms have the worst margins in any ordinance-related manufacture.

Both large corporations and some entire industries, as a block, are moving against anyone even remotely associated with firearms. They don't even have to make or sell firearms. If they are associated, they are targeted. It's been a mass effort that is very well coordinated, and it's going to suffocate all the major, 2nd Amendment supporters.

What will be left will be sparse, small mom'n pop outfits that will come and go as they face litigation and issues from well funded organizations. As Bernie Sanders pegged it before, the end of gun manufacturing in the US. And we already have bans on most things from outside the US.

Which means the right will be difficult to exercise in most of the US.

I have to give the Progressives major credit ...
And Reason.COM for pointing this was going to happen years ago ...

Totalitarian societies start -- not regimes, again, societies start (people blame the Nazis and Hitler, but it started before them in Germany, as a society) start -- by uniting behind an idea, and then suffocating any and all counters -- often by blaming 1 entity, and anyone who associates with them -- by just flat out repeating falsehoods until they stick. They go after emotions and fears, ensuring then logic goes out the window with their statements that defy science and statistics.

Ironically, I just had a conversation at work with someone here in Alabama that is just spewing things. I couldn't get him to understand that semi-automatic actions in pistols and rifles are similar, or in some cases, exactly the same, and are not military, selective fire capable.

He had also never heard of the USCCA, while he couldn't stop talking about the NRA. He even had that information wrong. I just shook my head. The US media says it enough times, people start believe things that just aren't true.

This is how it ends. After guns it will be anything else the Progressives don't like. And then, decades from now, they'll break apart, and then start fighting themselves. I see abortion being one of the first things to go among Progressives.

This year, 2018, is the year I'm hanging up my civics, libertarianism and other things. All I'm doing with my engineering background, civics knowledge, use of AFT, CDC, FBI and GAO statistics, and other application of logic is upsetting most of my colleagues on-line.

It's 'herd mentality.' On an individual basis, I can reach people. But in a herd, or the increasing number of people who believe what they want to believe after hearing or reading it, and refuse to associate with anyone who disagrees, are becoming impossible to reach.

The 1st Amendment is next. The Press will be their own undoing, sadly enough. We've already thrown reporters in jail, and both Fox News and CNN have had endured the wraith of Presidents. A few media executives will look at it from a business and liability standpoint, and that will be that.

BTW, if you haven't seen it, highly recommend Kill the Messenger (2014). Some might look at it as an anti-Reagan film, but it's actually an anti-US media one. The US government, in cohorts with the US media, has instigated far, far more organized and sustained crime than the everyday, average American citizen.
Brian, you're the man.
 
2 school shootings in one day, today? Guns are awesome.
 
2 school shootings in one day, today? Guns are awesome.
CMU already is a gun free campus. It was a domestic issue and the shooter was a resident who brought a gun into his dorm, completely against policy and law.

SIDE NOTE: The CMU police only offer storage of hunting rifles year-round for those who live on-campus. Yes, there are actual hunting activities associated with CMU ... or at least there were before this. Fully expect that to go.
 
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Only by you. Why are you attacking these people's beliefs? If one of us evil Islamphobic GOPers said anything about about a Muslim ceremony you'd go nuts.

Jesus - for the last time, no I wouldn't.

Anyway, all I said was "cute" and that it was weird. I didn't say they can't do it or anything.

Blah blah blah

Wahhhhh

Yes, 85, I know you're an amazing whiner.
 
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this is in no means a way to put down the tragic events that have taken place and the lives lost

please look up gun deaths per capita
 
valid question on why the U.S. is the only Developed Nation where this happens this often

I don't know ... the guaranteed, US media infamy? Can you point to another country that offers such?

Can you also point to another country that had so few school shootings before a federal law (1990), and so many immediately after (and still continuing)?

Most other countries operate on 'common sense.' But not the US.

But here's one statistic I invite everyone to look up ...

Countries with heavy organized crime and non-legal residents also have heavy gun crime.

Furthermore ...

I hope everyone realizes the US government has been more responsible for putting drugs, guns and other funding and armament into the hands of organized crime in its own country than any other as well.

From my civics handbook, that's undermining liberty. Having a government supporting crime, only to argue for less liberty. Doesn't matter if we're talking Reagan's Contra-funding or a California politician holding up an organized crime weapon that was approved for sale by the US gov't.
 
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