well if you follow the science, obviously George Floyd's death was the result of a drug overdose
but i have a feeling that in the eyes of a jury, Derek "Choke'Em" Chauvin may look guilty.
when Derek Chauvin inevitably walks ...
- Thread starter _glaciers
- Start date
but i have a feeling that in the eyes of a jury, Derek "Choke'Em" Chauvin may look guilty.
The quality of the defense attorneys here is going to be a big deal. You can easily recreate the video with out putting any or much weight at all on the neck or chest and show that a person can still breathe or talk. Especially since there was no bruising of the neck and no damage to the neck structures. Chauvin’s knee was on the side of Floyd’s neck. It takes a very large amount of force to cut off someone’s breathing from the side of the neck and that force would be more than sufficient to cause damage. Now, you could say positional asphyxia but (a) they mentioned excited delirium and thus were putting him in a position where they he was in less danger of that, (b) if they testify, I think you’ll see them all testify that they weren’t putting much weight on him because of that, and (c) there weren’t the other classic signs of asphyxiation.
So you’re almost taking the murder charges off the table from the very beginning, especially the 2nd degree. The third degree brings in a predicate of them performing in a generally dangerous manner that resulted in a death. The problem with this is that they were following procedure at the time. You would be reasonable to think that police procedures in 2020 would not include generally life-ending procedures listed as non-lethal and the statistics of this would prove you right. I think they’re bringing back the 3rd degree murder hoping that the jury will see it as a compromise verdict but I just don’t see how they’re going to make it stick with the jury instructions that will be given.
Hence, Floyd probably committed suicide by fentanyl and these guys followed procedure; I don’t know how you could prove beyond a reasonable doubt the murder predicates.
Now, if you want to say that they should’ve recognized his distress and followed other procedures to get him help (call FD earlier) and you can show that it is objectively reasonable that any other officer in that situation knowing what they knew at the time would’ve acted differently, then manslaughter is a very real option.
All of this is why I’m surprised that they didn’t follow the precedent set by the Freddie Gray officers and request a bench trial. Juries tend to follow emotion much more than judges who are sworn to follow the laws exclusively. I would think that would’ve been a no-brainer.
I was thinking about this same thing. The defense should do a demonstration right there in the courthouse in front of the jury. When it's done, the lawyer should say to the jury "I'm willing to bet that if I asked for a volunteer from the jury to come out here and see for themselves that this isn't a lethal technique, one of you would be willing to do it. However, if I asked one of you to volunteer to take 3 times the lethal dose of fentanyl, nobody would offer up your services".
Trial over.
It wasn't suicide, but he definitely killed himself. The question is whether he would have survived if the police had called EMTs earlier.For a guy committing suicide, Floyd was sure begging for his life.
Keep trying to spin an acquittal, guys. I’m sure the city’s lawyers argued with the council to settle the family‘s lawsuit against the city for 27 million tax payer dollars because they were feeling generous.
More like they aren't good at negotiations.Keep trying to spin an acquittal, guys. I’m sure the city’s lawyers argued with the council to settle the family‘s lawsuit against the city for 27 million tax payer dollars because they were feeling generous.
If he caused his own death, whether intentional or not, it is a suicide. If someone else causes his death, intentional or not, it is a homicide.
They would’ve had to have known he had fentanyl in his system in order to treat it and I don’t think that Floyd offered that information.
You play a stupid person on this board remarkably well.Keep trying to spin an acquittal, guys. I’m sure the city’s lawyers argued with the council to settle the family‘s lawsuit against the city for 27 million tax payer dollars because they were feeling generous.
Geez u are a hater. Floyd does NOT have any domestic battery charges on his record and his LAST charge was in 2007. That is 14 years ago. So who the f@@k are you to say the world is a better place w/o him? You know what else? That $20 bill was NOT COUNTERFIT! And Im sure Chauvin will get aquited after the city had to cough up $27million to Floyd's family.
When you come for the Water Cooler King, you better not miss, cuz I inevitably know more than you.
Here's his criminal record
Here's a signed affidavit from the DA saying he threatened a pregnant woman by putting a gun up to her abdomen/ Here's a small portion so everyone can see the disgusting animal you're defending:
[Floyd] forced his way into the residence, placed a pistol against the complainant’s abdomen, and forced her into the living room area of the residence. [Floyd] then proceeded to search the residence while another armed suspect guarded the complainant, who was struck in the head and side areas by this second armed suspect with his pistol after she screamed for help.
What would you do if that had happened to your mother, daughter or sister? Good riddance.
If he wasn’t living with her then it wasn’t domestic battery but that doesn’t make it any better.
i agree, i never said he commit domestic battery, i just said he was a woman-abusing drug addict.
Once again this was 14 YEARS AGO. Almost 2 decades ago. But if you want to hate this man for a crime he committed 2 decades ago then go ahead. I dont care...it will not bring back his life nor will it stop his family from getting $27million. I just wanted to call you out for being a bitter ass hater lol
Last edited:
It wasnt his girlfriend. It was a robbery victim and the incident was close to 20 years ago. This is a Christian country right? Doesnt God say to forgive? Didnt Jesus die on the cross to forgive our sins? Be more like Jesus 😎
One....he didnt not strike or assault the woman. He pointed a gun. He never "physically" hit her in that report. Also that is his ONLY transgression against a woman on record. Therefore you still have no evidence that he was a "woman abusING" person. The "ing" means plural and it was one person that he DIDNT even strike or hit. Therefore my theory of you being a hater is still true 😎
lmao at you defending someone putting a gun to a pregnant woman.
look at how far the party of women's rights and equality has fallen.
Im taking it from a factual perspective. I didnt condone his actions. And I have no party. Rep and Dems exist to keep this country divided. I view people like you as a bunch of mindless sheep worshipping a freaking political party.
The libertarian in me is skeptical of power and authority. We charge LEOS with the duty to respect the Constitution while enforcing the laws of the land. It's a burden for sure. here is the cold hard truth in America. If a LEO on land or water request or commands you to do something, you do it. You don't argue, you don't run and you act polite. I despise being flagged down and stopped on the water in my boat. I am not breaking any laws and the boat cops can stop you just because you are there. no probable cause needed.
With all that said, every black person or white person shot and killed by Cops would be alive if they just followed the orders of the cops on the scene. we can debate the merits of the stop ,but I would rather be arrested and my rights violated and be alive to fight it in court than to flee and be dead. What happened to Floyd is tragic and he should be alive today or at least not killed while being arrested. He would be alive for sure had he not resisted. Yes, he would be alive if the cops did their job better. At some point these victims do have some responsibility to not run ,resist or put themselves at the mercy of potentially power hungry cops.
With all that said, every black person or white person shot and killed by Cops would be alive if they just followed the orders of the cops on the scene. we can debate the merits of the stop ,but I would rather be arrested and my rights violated and be alive to fight it in court than to flee and be dead. What happened to Floyd is tragic and he should be alive today or at least not killed while being arrested. He would be alive for sure had he not resisted. Yes, he would be alive if the cops did their job better. At some point these victims do have some responsibility to not run ,resist or put themselves at the mercy of potentially power hungry cops.
any more platitudes? We live in a society? Yeah, I remember the first time I watched V For Vendetta, too.
Fact of the matter is, you're not any better than the 3-toothed Trump supporter or the blue-haired feminist just because you claim to be apolitical. It's a nice gesture, but its also a lie, and lying isn't something strong people do. Weak people lack conviction and ride the fence as they look behind them to see which side the tastemakers think they should side with.
You've picked the George Floyd side, and you're sticking to it even if it means disregarding the fact he's a woman-abuser (if you think someone who isn't above putting a gun to a pregnant woman's belly isn't above slapping women around, you're lying to yourself) and a drug addict, because you're so unable to think for yourself.
I've gotta give you some serious props. I don't know that I've ever come across someone that communicates with this level of visceral honesty and stays on topic as well as you do.
I’m not sure there is an appropriate delay of any length that is going to sponge away anyone’s knowledge of the city’s settlement. They are essentially asking any potential juror to “unsee”something, which they can’t.
That's why I said in the beginning that the timing of this was pretty sketchy.
I’m not sure there is an appropriate delay of any length that is going to sponge away anyone’s knowledge of the cellphone video showing Chauvin's knee on Floyd's throat for 7 minutes and 46 second -- long after he stopped begging for his life and lapsed into unconsciousness.
Was that before or after he took 3 times the lethal amount of fentanyl-laced meth? If only a doctor had warned him that he had a heart condition and continued drug use would kill him.
Oh wait, a doctor warned him about that in 2019.
The racist myth of the 'drug-crazed' Negro has been around this country for generations. This editorial from the New York Times addresses this crap better than I could.
Opinion | We Know How George Floyd Died. It Wasn’t From Drugs. (Published 2020)
The idea that drugs played a role is just a new version of an old racist myth.
An opinion piece isn't evidence, an autopsy and toxicology is.The racist myth of the 'drug-crazed' Negro has been around this country for generations. This editorial from the New York Times addresses this crap better than I could.
Opinion | We Know How George Floyd Died. It Wasn’t From Drugs. (Published 2020)
The idea that drugs played a role is just a new version of an old racist myth.www.nytimes.com
Floyd had 11ng/ml in his system. 3ng/ml is a lethal dose. If you dont think this is a cause of death, by all means get 11ng/ml of fentanyl in your blood and report back.
Funny thing, the same examiner who opines that Floyd had a 'lethal' level of fentanyl in his system for some strange reason cannot certify that it caused his death.
Weird, huh?
Sounds to me like that medical examiner isn't worth the money he's being paid. When you have a known "lethal dose", and the decedent has over 3 times that level in their blood, it doesn't take a lot of ciphering to figure out why the guy died. To claim otherwise is anti-science.Funny thing, the same examiner who opines that Floyd had a 'lethal' level of fentanyl in his system for some strange reason cannot certify that it caused his death.
Weird, huh?
Cardiopulmonary arrest, along with respiratory arrest, is a common effect of opioid overdose. Even more so with fentanyl. Narcan may very well have helped if Floyd had been forthcoming and if the police had it issued to them (many do nowadays because opioid overdoses are so prevalent). The criminal complaint stated that Hennepin medical examiner’s autopsy “revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation.” Still, the ME ruled it a homicide, so it must’ve been murder, right? Not so fast, Minnesota has a drug-induced homicide statute that lets a dealer be charged if someone dies of an overdose from drugs they sold the “victim.” So the ME might generally rule overdoses as homicides to keep that avenue of prosecution open.
Now, Ben Crump hired a few retired medical examiners to analyze the report and the video (not the actual body or evidence). Dr. Baden said in interviews that it didn’t matter whether the physical evidence was there because he saw the video. Unfortunately, no one has yet asked him if he can tell how much force was actually being applied by looking at the video nor has anyone asked him if Floyd’s fading was consistent with an opioid overdose. No one likely will, either, because the prosecution isn’t likely to undermine their own ME by putting any external ME’s on the stand even if they thought Baden’s opinion would stand up to cross-exam. It’s ok, though, because Baden’s job was solely for the public theater and it strongly contributed to the $27 million settlement.
IOW, there’s a ton of ambiguity in the cause of death that will probably be clarified in testimony.
”Don’t listen to this punk saying he can’t breathe. If he dies, it’s gonna be from a drug overdose!”
