when Derek Chauvin inevitably walks ...
- Thread starter _glaciers
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Am I disputing that he had drugs in his system and that he resisted getting into the back of the police car? No. But, goodness gracious, that's a far cry from buying the notion that Floyd was responsible for his own death -- ESPECIALLY given what the world witnessed on cellphone video.
Funny how this works for you and others here--especially when contrasted with the way you approached the poor, 'innocent' woman who was gunned down while rioting at the Capitol.
Hmmmm....I wonder what makes those two situations different?
You understand there are PLENTY of non-white people who resist and don’t get killed too right? Maybeeee it has something to do with the circumstances involved in each case being different? Stop looking at race in everything.
That is a horrible analogy. Partly because the physical evidence of asphyxiation did not exist in the autopsy. You can restrain someone, even with a knee to the neck, without applying asphyxiating pressure. I could do it to any of the jurors and instantly create reasonable doubt.
IMO, Floyd killed himself through ingestion of a fatal amount of fentanyl. The question is whether the officers on scene should’ve recognized his distress and acted accordingly to try to save his life. We don’t know when FD was called, what took them so long, what training the officers had in drug recognition, if they had narcan or not, and what their procedures were at the time. It’s possible it’s manslaughter and possible they get acquitted.
More white people are killed by police every year than black people and recent studies have shown police are more likely to hesitate in using deadly force against blacks than other ethnicities.
First off, there is no such thing as a 'lethal' dose because it depends on how much the user has built up a resistance to the drug's effects. That's one of the reasons why the same medical examiner who said Floyd had taken a lethal dose declined to say it caused his death.
But, for the sake of this discussion, let's ALL AGREE WITH YOU and play out this scenario of yours.
Having take 'a lethal' dose of fentanyl, Floyd naturally had some kind of seizure which caused him to panic when he was being put into the back of the squad car and, later on, caused him to cry out he couldn't breathe after being thrown to the ground.
So while Floyd pled for his life -- and bystanders can be heard on tape echoing his pleas for assistance -- Chauvin ignored them all and kept his knee pressed into Floyd's neck in a choke hold. The other officers didn't physically abuse the victim like Chauvin did, but they too ignored all the pleas, from Floyd and bystanders, to offer medical assistance.
Are you telling me these callous actions didn't directly contribute to Floyd's death??!?
What would have happened if -- like most people showing signs of distress -- Floyd had received immediate assistance when it became crystal clear he was under duress?
The reason the police were called to the scene was because Floyd apparently tried to cash a counterfeit $20 bill. This wasn't in any way, shape, or form, a violent situation. So what the hell was going on here? The police are there to serve and protect ALL of us. How exactly did Chauvin serve and protect this Black man -- who was suffering from a LETHAL dose of a drug in his system which apparently everybody on the scene noticed EXCEPT for the police?
Oh, I forgot, sk8 told me that those people are always lying they can't breathe, right? How could those poor officers have known he wasn't faking it, right? The bottom line? Chauvin and his officers are still guilty of contributing to his death, no ifs, ands or buts. I rest my case---using your line!
First off, there is no such thing as a 'lethal' dose because it depends on how much the user has built up a resistance to the drug's effects. That's one of the reasons why the same medical examiner who said Floyd had taken a lethal dose declined to say it caused his death.
But, for the sake of this discussion, let's ALL AGREE WITH YOU and play out this scenario of yours.
Having take 'a lethal' dose of fentanyl, Floyd naturally had some kind of seizure which caused him to panic when he was being put into the back of the squad car and, later on, caused him to cry out he couldn't breathe after being thrown to the ground.
So while Floyd pled for his life -- and bystanders can be heard on tape echoing his pleas for assistance -- Chauvin ignored them all and kept his knee pressed into Floyd's neck in a choke hold. The other officers didn't physically abuse the victim like Chauvin did, but they too ignored all the pleas, from Floyd and bystanders, to offer medical assistance.
Are you telling me these callous actions didn't directly contribute to Floyd's death??!?
What would have happened if -- like most people showing signs of distress -- Floyd had received immediate assistance when it became crystal clear he was under duress?
The reason the police were called to the scene was because Floyd apparently tried to cash a counterfeit $20 bill. This wasn't in any way, shape, or form, a violent situation. So what the hell was going on here? The police are there to serve and protect ALL of us. How exactly did Chauvin serve and protect this Black man -- who was suffering from a LETHAL dose of a drug in his system which apparently everybody on the scene noticed EXCEPT for the police?
Oh, I forgot, sk8 told me that those people are always lying they can't breathe, right? How could those poor officers have known he wasn't faking it, right? The bottom line? Chauvin and his officers are still guilty of contributing to his death, no ifs, ands or buts. I rest my case---using your line!
Maybe someone here knows the answer to this, I certainly don’t: with the level of drugs in his system being 3/almost 4 times the lethal amount (I believe someone posted earlier the lethal amount is 3 *whatever the unit of measurement is* and he was at 11).... IF EMS was called/able to get there in ____ amount of time, could he have lived? Is that amount beyond what narcan/other medical intervention could help?
Regardless on how anyone feels about the case, I think the defense has a good case based on the ME physical findings and toxicology report but the answer to my question above could change that.
Excellent. Now that you have likely described exactly what really happened, can you see why some people find it unlikely that they will be able to convict Chauvin of murder?First off, there is no such thing as a 'lethal' dose because it depends on how much the user has built up a resistance to the drug's effects. That's one of the reasons why the same medical examiner who said Floyd had taken a lethal dose declined to say it caused his death.
But, for the sake of this discussion, let's ALL AGREE WITH YOU and play out this scenario of yours.
Having take 'a lethal' dose of fentanyl, Floyd naturally had some kind of seizure which caused him to panic when he was being put into the back of the squad car and, later on, caused him to cry out he couldn't breathe after being thrown to the ground.
So while Floyd pled for his life -- and bystanders can be heard on tape echoing his pleas for assistance -- Chauvin ignored them all and kept his knee pressed into Floyd's neck in a choke hold. The other officers didn't physically abuse the victim like Chauvin did, but they too ignored all the pleas, from Floyd and bystanders, to offer medical assistance.
Are you telling me these callous actions didn't directly contribute to Floyd's death??!?
What would have happened if -- like most people showing signs of distress -- Floyd had received immediate assistance when it became crystal clear he was under duress?
The reason the police were called to the scene was because Floyd apparently tried to cash a counterfeit $20 bill. This wasn't in any way, shape, or form, a violent situation. So what the hell was going on here? The police are there to serve and protect ALL of us. How exactly did Chauvin serve and protect this Black man -- who was suffering from a LETHAL dose of a drug in his system which apparently everybody on the scene noticed EXCEPT for the police?
Oh, I forgot, sk8 told me that those people are always lying they can't breathe, right? How could those poor officers have known he wasn't faking it, right? The bottom line? Chauvin and his officers are still guilty of contributing to his death, no ifs, ands or buts. I rest my case---using your line!
Narcan is used currently to counteract the effects of fentanyl but it requires a large amount than, say, heroin. Narcan is pretty amazing. It binds to the same receptors that opioids do and blocks any more absorption. It’s quick too. Of course, police and FD have to be ready when they administer because it almost instantly kills the high and the OD’ed suspects often come up fighting. One nose spray is normally enough for heroin.
Fentanyl is a much more potent opioid. If treated quickly and with enough dosage, the OD can be reversed. But there are a lot of ifs in that equation. If first responders know the person is OD’ing, if they know what they’re OD’ing on, if they have enough doses (for police application), they might be able treat the OD.
Watch the video from the DEA in this link that has two officers talking about their accidental ingestion of fentanyl and the effects it had on them. Note that they felt like their bodies were shutting down, they felt like they couldn’t breathe, everything was exaggerated, etc.
DEA Officer Safety Alert: Fentanyl Can Kill You | National Police Foundation
Advancing Policing Through Innovation and Science
www.policefoundation.org
Your very first sentence is a lie that you are pulling straight out of your ass. Your last paragraph started with an intentional misquote of what I said. Do you even realize that you do this or are you simply unable to have a debate without resorting to lies to form your arguments?First off, there is no such thing as a 'lethal' dose because it depends on how much the user has built up a resistance to the drug's effects. That's one of the reasons why the same medical examiner who said Floyd had taken a lethal dose declined to say it caused his death.
But, for the sake of this discussion, let's ALL AGREE WITH YOU and play out this scenario of yours.
Having take 'a lethal' dose of fentanyl, Floyd naturally had some kind of seizure which caused him to panic when he was being put into the back of the squad car and, later on, caused him to cry out he couldn't breathe after being thrown to the ground.
So while Floyd pled for his life -- and bystanders can be heard on tape echoing his pleas for assistance -- Chauvin ignored them all and kept his knee pressed into Floyd's neck in a choke hold. The other officers didn't physically abuse the victim like Chauvin did, but they too ignored all the pleas, from Floyd and bystanders, to offer medical assistance.
Are you telling me these callous actions didn't directly contribute to Floyd's death??!?
What would have happened if -- like most people showing signs of distress -- Floyd had received immediate assistance when it became crystal clear he was under duress?
The reason the police were called to the scene was because Floyd apparently tried to cash a counterfeit $20 bill. This wasn't in any way, shape, or form, a violent situation. So what the hell was going on here? The police are there to serve and protect ALL of us. How exactly did Chauvin serve and protect this Black man -- who was suffering from a LETHAL dose of a drug in his system which apparently everybody on the scene noticed EXCEPT for the police?
Oh, I forgot, sk8 told me that those people are always lying they can't breathe, right? How could those poor officers have known he wasn't faking it, right? The bottom line? Chauvin and his officers are still guilty of contributing to his death, no ifs, ands or buts. I rest my case---using your line!
You said that that “those people are always lying”. I said that it is a common occurrence but that is far from “always lying.”
It sure as hell doesn't lead to an acquittal. At the bare minimum it's at least manslaughter -- and that's assuming the jury doesn't buy what they see on tape.
At the very maximum it's involuntary manslaughter, but Chauvin isn't charged with that. Had there been some bruising on Floyd's neck or some sign of physical trauma to his throat this would probably be a different story. As it is, Chauvin will walk and Minneapolis will burn. The jurors will probably have to move.
They actually have that crime on the books in Minnesota. When a dealer sells drugs to someone who goes on to OD, they can charge the dealer with murder.
The crowd was PLEADING with that the cop to STOP Killing him which he CALMLY smiled. He didnt seem stressed at all. Had his hand in his pocket just "chillin".
White people resist arrest and catch attitudes with cops all the time w/o getting killed, going to jail or catching a beatdown. This WHITE MAN held 11 national gaurds at GUNPOINT. He was NOT assaulted or killed. God forbid if White Muslims (Yes there r white muslims) become terrorists. They will go virtually unchecked by law enforcent as they plot terrorist acts.
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Yes, yes they were. I’m sure that will be used by the prosecution but I wonder if that’s prejudicial. Crowds yell at police all the times about violating rights and such and they’re mostly wrong. So I’m not sure how that will play in a court of law with evidentiary standards. It certainly has an emotional appeal to it.
Yeah, the victim cries out to Chauvin who has him in a choke hold that he can't breathe and then goes quiet.
Those idiot bystanders didn't have a clue, right sk8?
In a court of law the evidentiary value may certainly be nil. How many of them are certified to judge someone’s physical condition? How many people watching this video can tell how much force Chauvin is applying here? How many people that have watched this video can tell you that Chauvin did not damage to Floyd’s neck, not even a bruise, and certainly no damage to his airway? You certainly can’t tell that from the video and don’t even want to believe the forensic evidence.Yeah, the victim cries out to Chauvin who has him in a choke hold that he can't breathe and then goes quiet.
Those idiot bystanders didn't have a clue, right sk8?
So to paraphrase the late Johnny Cochran, "if the bruises don't show, you must let Chauvin go?
I wonder how many millions have watched the video of Chauvin and his fellow officers ignoring the victim's cries for help?
How many millions have watched the video showing officers refusing to listen to the bystanders who saw a clear medical emergency and ignored their pleas to help him?
How many millions have watched Chauvin keep his knee on Floyd's throat through the victim's cries, through the bystander pleas, for eight minutes to the point where the victim was left comatose and unresponsive?
Yet you want us 'emotional-types' to believe that the evidence exonerates these officers from any wrong doing?
this reads like a 15 year old girl's tumblr blog. i'm sure you're plenty familiar with that given your taste in women, though.
anyways "hOw MaNy MiLliOnS" watched George Floyd pop a lethal dose of fentanyl in his mouth and whine "I can't breathe" when he was standing up?
Good riddance, Fentanyl Floyd was a piece of shit human being and Derek Chauvin is a hero to all battered women if he did contribute to this scumbag dying.
But he couldn't go in the police car because he was claustrophobic. That's why it was a good thing the cops removed him from his car when they showed up at the scene. They were providing assistance.
Here is a Black undercover cop who "complied" with officers and STILL caught a beatdown. Those coward ass officers are on trial.
www.yahoo.com
St. Louis police officers on trial for beating Black undercover detective during protest
St. Louis police detective Luther Hall was brutally beaten while working undercover at a protest against police brutality in September 2017. Now three fellow officers are on trial for the assault, which they claim was a case of mistaken identify. One of the officers already pleaded guilty and...
His oxygen was cut off by the 6ft tallman kneeling on his neck. He wasnt punched in the neck 😂
Except that it wasn’t. It takes a large amount of force to cut off the airway at that angle and that force would’ve left all kinds of traces in the autopsy. Asphyxiation also leaves traces in the autopsy that were not seen. Tell me how either of those things can be true.
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A lot of force like a 6ft tall, 200Ib white guy kneeling on your neck? 😂😂😂 I'm 6'2 and 230Ibs how about you let me kneel on your neck for 8 minutes and test your theory? 🤷🏿 I swear sometimes I dont know if you guys are trolls or just morons.
A lot of force like a 6ft tall, 200Ib white guy kneeling on your neck? 😂😂😂 I'm 6'2 and 230Ibs how about you let me kneel on your neck for 8 minutes and test your theory? 🤷🏿 I swear sometimes I dont know if you guys are trolls or just morons.
You can assume that position and exert anywhere from no force to enough force to break my neck. That position allows that control which is why it is in the procedure book. You can’t tell just by looking how much force he is exerting. But it wasn’t enough to cause the kind of damage that you are claiming happened. It’s a very easy concept to understand and yet you want to call others morons because you can’t understand the simple concept of variable force. SMH.
I guess the PD should have had you defending them at the civil trial that gave the family $27 million 🤷🏿
Ive seen other cases in which people got violated and they didnt get nearly enough as they should to me. You generalize too much. Every city and state are different. And if the gov't like to piss away money, why is our law enforcement and school system ALWAYS underfunded? Our govt pisses off our money by giving the military a blank check supported by you paranoid right wingers.
The PD didn’t settle, the Minneapolis city council settled. The same council that defunded their police force. That $27 million is no admission of guilt for anyone.
And it was an utterly ridiculous amount of money. There is no way possible that this guy was worth 27 million for the time he lost on his life.
Floyd would have had to have been college-educated and White to sniff the 20 million level, right Crazy?
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