when Derek Chauvin inevitably walks ...
- Thread starter _glaciers
- Start date
The fire department was called over the radio by the responding officers at some point. Why’d it take so long for them to get there? The FD is who would assess and perform medical procedures. If the officers assessed excited delirium, they might very well be in procedure restraining until FD got there.
In my wife’s jurisdiction, if the suspect asks for FD or signifies a medical condition, FD is called right then and there. That can mean stopping on the side of the road on the way to the jail to wait for FD. If FD transports to the hospital for whatever reason (and that can be as little as the suspect saying they want to go to the hospital if they’ve complained about breathing), then that officer comes off the road and sits at the hospital until the doctors release the person. Then they continue. This can take hours; hours in jurisdictions where you may have only one or two officers for miles. So then a domestic situation comes up and that officer who is at the hospital and no longer in their zone has to respond. The initial suspect gets up and walks away. Or, the police respond very slowly and put the domestic victims at risk.
It must be a rare situation for someone to claim a medical incident falsely just to try to avoid going to jail, right? Well, no. Not rare, not unusual, not uncommon. In fact, it is quite common for suspects to claim they can’t breathe; not just after Physical resistance or after attempting to flee and getting caught, but also when they’re perfectly fine the moment the handcuffs come out. In some jurisdictions, it happens more often than it doesn’t. Multiple times a night.
This crying wolf is a self-centered and reckless activity that doesn’t help them and puts the rest of the community at risk. The overwhelming number of occurrences where the suspect is crying wolf causes natural desensitization, which is unfair to the suspects that actually have medical incidents and also to the LEOS that just want to do their jobs well and get home without incident.
"Members of the jury, my client should be found NOT GUILTY.
Officer Chauvin ignored the victim's cries -- as well as the crowd of spectators pleading for him to help -- because he thought this was one of the usual cases he sees where those people are caught faking it. Just ask sk8, this sh*t happens ALL THE TIME!
It can't be my client's fault that this was one of those freakishly, super-rare times where the victim was serious and couldn't breathe."
1. If he couldn't breathe he wouldn't be able say he can't breathe.
2. The crowd has no bearing on the case whatsoever.
That first point is the one they teach all first responders. In the Baden interview, the esteemed Dr. tried to blow that off saying that you can talk without inhaling. I looked through a bunch of medical literature on this and couldn’t find anything that stated that you could talk while not drawing enough air for respiration. I found quite a bit in the other direction. It was enough research that I have lost respect for the man that wrote the book on gunshot wound forensics. He flat out lied to the American people in that interview to cover his paid-for report.
It seems to me that the amount of pressure it would take to the side or back of the neck to suffocate someone would be significant enough that it would probably tear quite a bit of soft tissue. Certainly far more than what it would take to the front of the neck to choke someone out.
And it's total bullshit. Everyone in the profession needs to understand its a myth.
Here's a reddit post which directly addresses it:
This is a phrase I heard Peter King say in the wake of Eric Garner's death and I feel it's something that everyone in our profession needs to be aware of. The myth of "If you can speak you can breathe".
I know I have heard it said twice by officers I work with, whom I both corrected. One of them actually argued with me about it until I was able to get Fire and Rescue to tell them they are wrong. The LAPD killed a man because they ignored his pleas and told him that if he could speak he could breathe. THIS IS FALSE!!!!!!!!! And clearly officers nationwide are not being properly trained to know that it is false. Knowing that this myth persists, and knowing I have heard actual officers repeat it in my presence, I felt it needed to be addressed.
Hearing that phrase come out of someone's mouth always upsets me, because it can **easily lead to a preventable death.**So let's explore why this is false, because anyone who comes up against a situation like this needs to realize that You CAN speak if you cannot breathe!!
This is true for multiple reasons, so let's explore them:
- The lungs have what are called "Volumes" and "Capacities". For our purposes, you need to understand these two phrases: Functional Reserve Capacity (the amount of air left in the lungs after a normal exhalation) and Expiratory Reserve Volume (the amount of air you can still force out of your lungs after a normal exhalation).
- When you take a normal breath you breathe in and out you are breathing about 500ml of air. After breathing out, you are left with ~2400ml of air inside your lungs, this is the Functional Reserve Capacity. If you try to force out as much air as possible, you can still force out ~1200ml more air. This is the Expiratory Reserve Volume. This is air you are able to speak with even if you cannot take a normal breath. Notice that the Expiratory Reserve Volume is more than twice the size of a normal breath. That is a lot of air you are able to force out, and a lot of speaking you can do even if you can't breathe.
- The lungs work on negative pressure. So, your lungs, when you breathe in, are at a lower pressure than the outside air. This draws the air into them. This is caused by your diaphragm and intercostal muscles. Your lungs are very elastic, and will move back to their normal size during exhalation. This is where the problem begins for officers. If you are kneeling on a suspect, or you have them handcuffed on the ground so that they are on their chest, there is a strong possibility that you can cut off their ability to breathe. Once the lungs begin to exhale, they collapse, but if you they are being pressed down on by body weight, they may not be able to re-expand. They then continue to collapse, forcing out the Functional Reserve Capacity of air, but not drawing in a new breath. So, your suspect may be pleading for breath, they may actually be incapable of drawing one in, and the reason is you. If someone is saying they cannot breathe, you need to believe them, because you might be killing them. Furthermore, during any kind of physical altercation, that person may be breathing deeply and rapidly, making their lungs collapse faster when you are kneeling on them or holding them on the ground.
- Asthma. Some of you may be saying "Well, the guy who died in LAPD's care had asthma, that wasn't the officer's fault or the jail's fault." Oh yes it was. If someone is telling you they have asthma and they can't breathe, you need to believe them. Asthma is a constriction of the airways, no different than being strangled. They will still be able to speak and they will still be dying slowly. It took 30 minutes for that man to die, and that was entirely preventable.
you've forever lost the privilege to complain about someone's choice of source
That is what I’ve been told from multiple LEO and forensic experts.
"Ha! This punk finally gave up on his 'I can't breathe' lying a while back. I suppose NOW I'll hear whining that I was choking him to death."
And many rape victims wouldnt have gotten raped if they didnt drink alcohol, but in the end a man does NOT have the right to rape a woman who is piss drunk or passed out. Your point is irrelevant and you wrote 2 dumb ass paragraphs to say it.
Last edited:
"Abuser" means he did it multiple times and you only have ONE incident on record. And him partaking in drugs means he makes bad choices & not a bad person. Also he committed the crimes ALMOST 20 YEARS AGO and has NOT caught any charges since then. In the end, there was no counterfit $20 and he lost his life to a coward ass cop. In the end, Floyd became a victim when the cowardly caucasion kneeled on his neck.
Also I didnt know that only Dems can support Floyd's side. I work with Law Enforcement everday (Im a project manager for a company that makes body cameras) so I actually support "good", "ethical" cops and not condone the actions of the bad cops.
As for politics, I focus on policies and laws that i like no matter what party made the law. I dont like Hilary, Trump or Biden. I compare Rep and Dems to "gangs"....one is not better than the other b/c they BOTH do gang s**t. Ironically both political parties share the same color as the Bloods and the Crips. No matter who us in power, the US will always -
1.Bomb other countries
2.Try to tell other countries how to live thier life
3. Fight about abortion, gun laws and immigration and change nothing.
4. Complain about the other political party
I think for myself which is why Im not like you, a person who worships a political party. Some of you "men" were damn near ready to have sex with Trump if he asked.
Politics have become one big corny ass cliche'
Last edited:
Dude, where do you get the idea that “abuser” is plural? Where did you go to school? What would “abusers” be, relative to the word “abuser?” Is someone not a murderer unless they’ve murdered more than once?
Idgaf about the rest of your post, but you clearly don’t know what the word plural means.
Police are also trained to avoid positional asphyxiation, which is what is referenced in the the third bullet.
To the initial point, I went back looking for published literature on talking while suffocating and I found a couple of articles that put forth some compelling calculations. I’m not exactly sure they cover all of the cases but the basic conclusions seem to refute my earlier posts.
Last edited:
I fixed my post. Thank you for pointing that out. I fixed it and thank you for telling me that you didnt "GAF" about the rest of my post. That means you actually read it and it made you feel some type of way. I come to this board b/c some of you guys "amuse me" with the ****ery you say on this board. So I just have to troll.
The Reddit post also mentioned asthma. I had severe asthma as a child. I can distinctly recall waking up my parents at the age of 5 and telling my mother I couldn't breathe -- and I couldn't. The doctor told my parents that I wouldn't have survived the night without medical assistance.
Judge Cahill ruled to admit portions of Floyd's 2019 arrest video that were similar to his 2020 attempted arrest. This video shows another incident where Floyd ingested drugs to avoid arrest and physiologically how he acted after that ingested. It will go directly to the point of whether Chauvin killed Floyd or whether Floyd killed Floyd. Additionally, the state attempted to bring in forensic psychologist to explain away Floyd's behavior in 2019 as psychological but was denied. That witness can still testify if the defense refers to Floyd's emotional state but then the entire video would also be admitted and would show that Floyd had tempted fate before.
In addition, I don't think most people even know that Floyd had been arrested in a very similar way in 2019. I think most are buying the media/family attorney's false narrative that Floyd had been a perfectly upstanding citizen for the previous 13 years. This video being played for the jury will prove that narrative false.
In addition, I don't think most people even know that Floyd had been arrested in a very similar way in 2019. I think most are buying the media/family attorney's false narrative that Floyd had been a perfectly upstanding citizen for the previous 13 years. This video being played for the jury will prove that narrative false.
Funny thing, I thought Floyd was the victim, not the defendant on trial.
So the fact that George Floyd wasn't a 'perfectly upstanding citizen' somehow gives Chauvin a pass for killing him??!?
Floyd is not a victim of murder if he killed himself.
😂😂😂 I love White people like you. You guys go to great lengths to defend cops and other racist even if you make yourself look like a moron.
He got arrested in 2019.....did he get CHARGED with anything? What crime did he commit when he got arrested? I wonder why he did NOT get charged with a crime 🤷 You didnt research that part huh? Unfortunately this piece of shit cop will go to jail and hopefully the other "bad cops" will learn from his mistake or quit the force.
Once again like i told the other morons, I do NOT condone his actions close to 20 years ago. In the end, the $20 bill was NOT counterfit and he was MURDERED by an asshole cop with a long history of offences of violating people rights on his record. Floyds past has NOTHING to do with this current case which is why his family was awarded $27 mil. If you want to get mad, then get mad at these corrupt cops that is costing tax payers millions of dollars in settlements. Chauvin is a 200Ib maN that kneeled on another mans neck for 8 MINUTES. Get out of you White emotions and you will see that it is a CLEAR case of police brutality.
He was already HANDCUFFED and lying on the ground NOT RESISTING when the cop kneeled on his neck for OVER 8 MINUTES. Thisis the same cop who worked at the same bar as Floyd and KNEW him. And once again there was no fake $20 bill. But think what u want to think my friend. Im done trolling you morons for today.
Yeah, an unarmed man -- be it Elijah McClain in Aurora or Eric Garner in NY or George Floyd in Minneapolis -- could DIE if they do it.
That would never happen with you or me, but that's a Black Man's 'reality.' Why is that?
Last edited:
I’m not defending Chauvin. I’m pointing out where the prosecution is going to have issues convicting him. George Floyd ingested a fatal amount of fentanyl and showed all the effects of an opioid overdose. If he was the cause of his own death, which given that he ingested a more than fatal amount of fentanyl is just as likely as not, then this is not a murder. Wishing that was not a factor and that will not go towards reasonable doubt is ignoring reality.
Also, thank you for injecting your own bigotry into this discussion. Establishes your credibility quite well.
Racist post is racist.
Also, is there any amount of evidence that will change your mind?
What racial slur? "The drug-crazed Negro Myth"? Good grief, if you had READ the article I linked I was quoting directly from it.
And its the cops JOB to arrest those who resist arrest BY THE BOOK. There are also plenty of people who dont resist that geta violated. There are PLENTY of white people who resist and dont get killed b/c they were white. By the way, a MAJORITY of cops killed on duty are killed by WHITE PEOPLE. Maybe they need to aggresive with u guys.
If i beat up an anemic person and they die, does it matter if there were anemic? No! In the end the COMBINATION of them being anemic and my beatdown caused the death. Im still at fault! Same with this case.This punk ass cop will go to jail. End of story.
It really boggles the mind the lengths that Chauvin's board defenders will go to defend his videotaped behavior that day.
How anyone can stomach watching it and say afterwards, 'the Black guy had drugs in his system and initially resisted arrest so let Chauvin walk,' has clearly got something else going on filtering their perception.
How anyone can stomach watching it and say afterwards, 'the Black guy had drugs in his system and initially resisted arrest so let Chauvin walk,' has clearly got something else going on filtering their perception.
Where did someone defend his behavior? Why do you insist that a lethal dose of fentanyl isn't actually lethal?
Why are we having this discussion if everybody is in agreement Chauvin is guilty?
The fact that you can't admit that any of George Floyd's actions contributed to his death is pretty sad.
Similar threads
