“To be the best you have to play the best”
Wisconsin 49 - cowtown 0
Notre Dame 52 - cowtown 0
Congrats on your upcoming blowout at the hands of Florida. You have as good of a schedule as Mercer.
2 for 1's
- Thread starter surfer98
- Start date
Wisconsin 49 - cowtown 0
Notre Dame 52 - cowtown 0
Congrats on your upcoming blowout at the hands of Florida. You have as good of a schedule as Mercer.
We’ve pulled out of our contracts too. It happens.
Newsflash: The home-and-home (1:1) agreements with Georgia Tech, UNC, and Louisville were signed in 2015, 2016, and 2018. Yes, GT was coming to Orlando before Irma postponed it (and then UCF would have to gone to UNC before Florence postponed it), but now in 2021 none of these UCF home games have yet been played and there is no guarantee they ever will be played. Hopefully GT and UofL both come to Bounce House in 2022 as currently scheduled. Declaring UNC's scheduled visit in 2025 a "certainty" would certainly be premature at this point.
We still have one open spot in 2021 and 2022, then two open spots in 2023 and 2024, then three open spots in 2025 and 2027; all other years we have four open spots.
As was just demonstrated in the last 2.5 years of brilliant incomparable SEC-level AD Danny White, declaring you'll only play 1:1 may limit you to G5-only home games as you arrange future schedules. He supposedly had a H&H with Arizona State in the bag, but no.
Boise State's upcoming series with Oregon (signed in 2018 to be played in 2024,25,26,) is two in Eugene and one in Boise. That said Boise State presently has home games of 1:1 agreements scheduled for Oklahoma State (2013 agree, 2021 play), Michigan State (agree 2010, 2022 play), Oregon State (2014 agree, 2023 play), and Washington State (recently pushed back from 2026-27 to 2032-33).
All the steadfast "1:1 or bust" crowd can line up now and buy their tickets for home OOC schedules littered with the likes of Marshall and Western Kentucky.
Or recognize the landscape (like Boise State has) and take the adverse 2:1 agreements which you do yield one fantastic home game...and two road games with big road paychecks.
Our program and our brand will cease to grow if we impose our own ceiling.
Look, I don't like the idea of accepting a 2 for 1s either, but our future OOC schedule (or lack there of) is not acceptable. The 2 UNC games are the only P5 opponents we have scheduled past 2022. Meanwhile P5 teams are currently scheduling games out in 2032. Something's gotta give.
Since 2000 we have played way more P5/BCS programs (with a higher win/loss record, National titles, etc...). We have played 56. They have played 38. We have beat more P5 programs. Just look at the list and judge for yourself. Yes, they have a better record but they are rarely playing cream-of-the-crop type of programs in true road games and we played a lot more true road games without a return home game....a ridiculous amount more. They played 16 true road games. We played 31 true road games. They have played 14 neutral site games. We have played 8 (***bowl games and kickoff classics are at neutral sites***). Where games are played matters. Other than 7-10 programs out there each year, this is the biggest factor in winning/losing.
They are 3-0 in BCS/NY6 bowls (Arizona, Oklahoma, TCU). We are 2-1 (Baylor, Auburn, and LSU). They have 10.3 conference titles. We have 5.3. The WAC/Mountain West did not have a title game until 2013 so for 8.3 of their 11.3 conference titles they never had to play an extra title game against another quality team. They are 3-2 in conference title games. For 1.3 of our 5.3 titles we did not have to play an extra title game against another quality team. We are 4-2 in conference title games.
Here is who Boise State has played: @Wazzou, @Arkansas, @South Carolina, Wazzou, @Arkansas, Iowa State (bowl game), @Oregon State, Oregon State, Loserville (bowl game), @Georgia, @Oregon State, BC (bowl game), Oregon State, Oklahoma (bowl game), @Washington, @Oregon, Oregon, VA Tech (kickoff classic), Oregon State, Georgia (kickoff classic), AZ State (bowl game), @Michigan State, Washington (bowl game), @Washington, Oregon State (bowl game), Ole Miss (kickoff classic), Arizona (bowl game), Washington, @Virginia, Wazzou, @Oregon State, Baylor (bowl game), @Wazzou, Virginia, Oregon (bowl game), @OK State, @FSU, Washington (bowl game).
Here is who UCF has played: @GA Tech, @Bama, VaTech, @Clemson, @Syracuse, @VaTech, @Arkansas, @Penn State, @AZ State, Syracuse, @VaTech, @Syracuse, @West Virginia, @Wisconsin, West Virginia, @Penn State, @South Carolina, @Florida, Pitt, @NC State, Texas, @USF, Miss State (bowl game), USF, @BC, @USF, @Miami, USF, Miami, @Texas, Rutgers (bowl game), NC State, @KState, Georgia (bowl game), BC, @Ohio State, Mizzou, @Penn State, South Carolina, @Loserville, Rutgers, USF, Baylor (bowl game), Penn State (in Ireland), @Mizzou, NC State (bowl game), @stanford, @South Carolina, @Michigan, Maryland, @Maryland, Auburn (bowl game), Pitt, LSU (bowl game), Stanford, @Pitt
Btw, Utah and TCU were not BCS/P5 teams when Boise State used to play them. If they were in a BCS/P5 conference when they played I would have listed them. Boise State and TCU did play in the Fiesta Bowl even though neither was in a BCS/P5 conference. They both got jobbed by the powers that be that year because the P5 didn't want to go 0-2 against them.
Matt, that sales pitch did not help Danny White finalize a H&H with Arizona State (or any other P5 over his last 2.5 years), and I am pessimistic that sales pitch will help Terry Mohajir. But Terry can try, sure.
As it stands now, 2022 will be the best home schedule UCF has ever had; it could also be the last time a P5 school plays G5 UCF in Bounce House ever if we insist on H&H. Enjoy!
As it stands now, 2022 will be the best home schedule UCF has ever had; it could also be the last time a P5 school plays G5 UCF in Bounce House ever if we insist on H&H. Enjoy!
Maybe now that Heupel regressed us to losing home games P5 schools will be more willing to risk a trip rather than suffering a Pitt 2018 or Stanford 2019 type fate. Which isn’t an attractive prospect.
As far as I know, P5 teams are not afraid of losing a game at Bounce House, they simply want two home games in return for the one game at Bounce House. If you have contradictory evidence, please share.
What actual 2-1 series have been offered? Of course some schools will be hesitant to play a team on the road who has a 20+ game home win streak and embarrassed Pitt and Stanford at the bounce house. There isn’t much to gain for the win and the real prospect of a loss is not viewed as a “quality loss”.
A) the subject of the thread is "should we reevaluate our stance on 2:1?"
B) Much was publicized about preliminary discussions between Danny White and Scott Stricklin about 2:1, but nothing was finalized.*
C) Since DW was so vocal against 2:1, other 2:1 discussions had likely never progressed to anything media would broadcast.
D) Please tell me which P5s have rejected 2:1 on grounds of "no Bounce House ever".
* Yes, another DW "sacrilege" we must evaluate is hosting big games like this at the big stadium in town, Camping World. Georgia Tech has done/will do it. Houston has done it. Cincinnati has done it. Boise State has moved "home games" across the country.
We can place all the demands we want on Marshall and Western Kentucky. P5 programs across Florida and the southeast are generally in higher demand and hence are more demanding in return. But, yeah, we can try our demands on Vanderbilt and Wake Forest...if you really want them in Bounce House.
But it doesn’t matter. Louisville, Stanford, UNC, Boise, BYU, etc. are all sellouts. There is no missing fan that a higher profile game half as often attracts to fill out the stadium. We have a 40k stadium, not 80k. Financially there is absolutely no benefit. From a CFP standpoint it makes no difference. From a NY6 game the goal is to win the conference and have no out of conference losses. Playing 2-1 series vs elite opponents accomplishes little until the playoff is expanded.
You have to look at it from the opposing schools view.
90% of the time it is ALL about the money. They will almost never schedule a team that they think could beat them.
As long as they can fill their stadium scheduling patsies, they are okay with that and will continue to do so.
They want to enter conference play undefeated. So they schedule teams like Georgia Southern. Even that doesn't work out for them 100%
Our best bet is to schedule teams like North Carolina, GT, Tennessee, Arkansas, UCLA and go undefeated, and keep winning NY6 bowls until that glass ceiling breaks.
90% of the time it is ALL about the money. They will almost never schedule a team that they think could beat them.
As long as they can fill their stadium scheduling patsies, they are okay with that and will continue to do so.
They want to enter conference play undefeated. So they schedule teams like Georgia Southern. Even that doesn't work out for them 100%
Our best bet is to schedule teams like North Carolina, GT, Tennessee, Arkansas, UCLA and go undefeated, and keep winning NY6 bowls until that glass ceiling breaks.
Tennessee is a must-happen.
I have heard nothing about Arkansas or UCLA. One game against Arkansas in 2001. No games versus UCLA. If those are attainable, we need to get them on the schedule.
All in all, we currently have 5 P5 games (Louisville, GT, UNC) and 4 "good G5" games (with BYU and Boise State) among our 28 OOC needs through 2027. We still have 6 vacancies through 2024, and only have two UNC games scheduled beyond 2024 (hence 10 vacancies 2025-2027).
(Yes, Liberty had a good team this year, but I will not classify them with BYU and Boise State as a program and fan-attracter.)
I have heard nothing about Arkansas or UCLA. One game against Arkansas in 2001. No games versus UCLA. If those are attainable, we need to get them on the schedule.
All in all, we currently have 5 P5 games (Louisville, GT, UNC) and 4 "good G5" games (with BYU and Boise State) among our 28 OOC needs through 2027. We still have 6 vacancies through 2024, and only have two UNC games scheduled beyond 2024 (hence 10 vacancies 2025-2027).
(Yes, Liberty had a good team this year, but I will not classify them with BYU and Boise State as a program and fan-attracter.)
I would be willing to schedule 2-1 with P5 teams if the agreement guarantees the 1 gets played or we receive a financial payoff. The garbage of the 1st game at the P5 and the 1 being canceled is a nonstarter. As to playing at Camping World for our “1”, fine as long as we get 75%+ of tickets and other financial incentives. 50/50 split on tix is not a 2-1; it’s a 3-0. No deal.
Tennessee would be nice but I don't see them wanting it or us being able to force it.
I was open to select 2 for 1's but I think I have changed my mind. I don't see the benefit for the players/ coaches/fans, etc. I'd rather try and schedule more GT, UNC, Louisville, etc. than take a 2 for 1 with Florida. I don't see Florida as any better than the other schools I mentioned. They have never been to the playoff- just like us. Florida thinks they are worthy but they are not. A 2 for 1 doesn't do anything for UCF expect prove that we accept an inferior status. I'm not willing to accept that because it isn't true. I hope our new AD can put together some good out of conference games. I think Boise and BYU are just as fun opponents as GT. Just my opinion. I think DW burned some bridges with his use of the media/social media. Hopefully, our new AD can repair the image and schedule some fun games against good opponents. I'd also like to get rid of the FCS game. I live in the Savannah area and I will always give those tickets to friends or not go and my seats are empty. I'm not driving the distance to watch it. I'll catch that one on TV!
Any P5 is worth 1-1. We aren’t getting them either all the time. I hate FCS. Only people that like those are tailgaters and they leave at halftime.
The key is that BYU and Boise will fill the stadium. 2 of only a handful of teams that we can say that for outside of the “P5”. There is no financial incentive above and beyond that to cave to a 2-1. There just isn’t.
What if the mid-tier ACC teams stop giving us 1 for 1s? (Doesn't it seem like this has already happened?) Then what? You can't schedule Boise and BYU every year. We gonna be good with MAC, C-USA and Sun Belt teams every year in the OOC?
I don’t think we would be good with that. So it’s a good thing it’s just your hypothetical and not reality.
The reality is we haven't scheduled a P5 team in almost 3 full years.
So...We have 3 years of home games that will sell out. Boise next year. Louisville and Georgia Tech in 2022. BYU 2023. The scheduling isn’t done. Again you are proposing a hypothetical that would be bad. But the earliest that would come into play is 2024. But schedules beyond that are still in work.
I realize that, but the closer we get to those years the harder it's going to be to get a quality opponent. Most P5 teams when it comes to scheduling are focused on late 20s to even early 30s by now. (why college football scheduling is like this, I'll never understand, but it is) Can it be fixed? Sure, but I think the new AD has an uphill battle.
I'm just pointing out, we go undefeated, DW makes the Natty claim, (which I'm still all for) we get some ACC games scheduled in the immediate aftermath in Louisville and UNC (already in the works?) then absolutely nothing from any P5 school in the next 3 years, if that doesn't look like a clear cause and effect I don't know what is.
I wouldn't panic yet, but if Mohajir doesn't have a couple of 1 for 1s scheduled with P5 teams within the first year of his tenure, I think the writing may be on the wall, and 2 for 1s may have to be an unfortunate consequence of our success.
I am excited anytime UCF plays at home and have been going to games since 1996, my first year. If you need the occasional big name then that is not the type of fan the program should be built on. Winning and winning records with conference championships fills the stadium. Now a one off road game every now and then like Ohio State (that was a fun trip) o fine with, none of these 2-1 deals that cement us as second class. I not about that and accepting that is accepting the curruption that is the P-5 and the invitational (playoff)
This is true, but a site over a year ago showed that UCF had the most incomplete OOC schedule in the country outside of independents. There is a growing amount of P5 schools that don't have an opening till 2030 and beyond. Those that do have openings, they are limited and they are not going to be looking to fill up with road games. UCF is in no power to negotiate for favorable terms and the ability to pick and choose will get small as time passes.
Screw that. That is accepting weakness. I never want us to be in that position. Schedule a quality G-5 then and roll with that. Win the conference and make a NY6, that should be the goal every year. Not, let’s play bama as a rent a loss
A 1 off road game is probably worse than 2-1. You never get them at home. People show up late, leave early or don’t go at all in the win conference and play scrubs for OOC.
Ok, you can be in charge of getting the fans and recruits excited about playing UAB and Marshall every year.
Probably but only a handful of teams deserve a 2-1, not middle of the road P-5 teams. Like O’Leary said,ost of those schools are just cashing checks and were playing football at the right time
Yes, any P5 is a worth a 1&1. I don't think anyone has argued against that. The concern is that P5/G5 1&1's are becoming increasingly rare. I spent a lot of time researching these on Sunday, and the only recent P5/G5 1&1 agreements I found were for 1) rivalries that date back 100 years and 2) BYU. Nevermind the Boca Bowl, BYU has history and a worldwide following that dwarfs UCF's. Boise State recently caved in the 2:1 dilemma with Oregon.
The ACC & Big XII have always been stepchildren in the P5, and the ACC's revenue deficit vs B1G/SEC is growing. The ACC schools want 7 home games every year -- like UCF and everyone else does. First and foremost, they want home games; closely behind, if there is going to be a road game, that road game needs to offer them a good financial return. I don't have hard numbers, but I am pretty sure road games at BYU (like UTK, UVa have scheduled) are more lucrative for P5 teams than road games at UCF are for those P5 teams. (I would love to see the financial numbers for the P5 financial returns for road games at BYU, Boise State, and UCF. I am also curious how the numbers change when Cincinnati and Houston move big games to the big stadium in town.)
Absolutely we should sign 1:1 with P5 teams, but if/when we reach the point that only Wake Forest and Vanderbilt are agreeing, we will be forced to reevaluate things. It has been three years since we inked a P5 1:1, by the way, and it is not for a shortage of vacancies on UCF's schedules.
I wouldn't count on UF honoring any agreement to play even one game at UCF. It would be great if they did.
It is all about money and nothing else. P5 conference members aren't running a charity and have fiduciary responsibility to their institution as well their other members. It's not even about market size....cable is dead. Us getting into a P5 is contingent upon bringing in more television rights revenue for the conference members than what our share of the pay-out split would be. I'm of the belief that 2-1s against the right schools will establish the TV ratings record that makes extending us an invitation to be good business sense. I don't think games against mid/low level P5s or G5s/FCS moves us any closer to a P5 destination.
I think there are about 25 to 30 schools we should be willing to do 2 for ones with, The other 40 plus P5 we should not do them. The extra P5 stadium game should have a big assed payout.
Every OOC team we ever play should always be a Florida team. No reason to go any further and lots of valid reasons to just play in state.. Regardless of 2 for one or 25 or 6 to 4 arguments.
You wont get 3 with FCS or 4 without Fla schools every year. And playing FIU, FAU, or Stetson doesn't bring excitement nor fill the stadium.
FIU, FAU, or Stetson or FAMU would bring more fans to our Stadium than Tulane or east Carolina or any other podunk AAC team any day of the week. And Get any combination UM, FSU and UF on our schedule every year forever regardless of where the 25 or 6 to 4 gets played out. This scheduling crap is easy.
We pulled out on UM last time. They have to agree. I doubt we’ve been turning them down. It’s been them turning us down lately.
Someone mention P5's aren't running a charity. Neither is UCF and losing a home game every other year to a 2 for 1 so a P5 can make money sounds like UCF is helping P5's make money. I hope Terry can improve our scheduling. I think DW was a excellent AD but he did hurt UCF in scheduling. I still think mid level P5 teams would be willing to schedule us if Terry gets on the phone and repairs the relationships DW might have strained. Otherwise, schedule the best G5 games we can and keep making money.
I think winning hurt us in scheduling. A5 schools want to win all OOC games and get an easy 2 confrence wins =bowl game season. UCF is a hard match up. Middle road A5 and even upper A5 prefer the USF risk reward better.
Its also a self fulfilling becasue it keeps UCF out of playoff discussions and all the best Recruits fed into 3-6 A5 programs. Whi can then lobby for more $ furthering the divide.
