GoT season 7 discussion

[Great2BAKnight2]

It pains me to say this but this show has really diminished in terms of quality and interesting plot lines. This was the first finale since the show began where I was genuinely bored in some spots. Not for lack of stuff going on, but for lack of unpredictability.

The big "reveal" was Jon's lineage? Anyone with a brain had already pieced that together 2 seasons ago; book readers had that pegged going back years. And the show couldn't even give us someone telling Jon this before ending this season??? Jesus man.

Also these "all star" reunions are feeling really forced and cheesy.

The best part of the episode was the dialogue between Tyrion and Cersei.

And Theon! Why do we give a shit about Theon? Or Yara? They continue devoting lots of time to these people who seem totally irrelevant to the larger plotline. Unless the grand scheme to save mankind is posting them up on the Iron Islands while the walkers overtake all of Westeros.

Yeah, they're definitely consolidating interests this season (i.e. Littlefinger and Olenna) to create a final showdown. It's become much more defined with 3 sides remaining which is in direct contrast to the intricate web of politics the rest of the series was based on. I'd be surprised if the final season is rated as highly as the earlier seasons. It's too black and white now.

The big reveal for Jon last night wasn't just his parents but that he isn't a bastard due to the marriage. That gives him the legitimate claim for the throne. Also revealed is that Robert's Rebellion was based on a lie. They said Jon's mother was abducted and raped, but in reality they ran away together. So the Targaryan's loss of power was entirely a political maneuver by Robert Baratheon to take the throne. I didn't mind it as an ending because it fleshed out the backstory.

 

[UCFKnight85]

Yeah, they're definitely consolidating interests this season (i.e. Littlefinger and Olenna) to create a final showdown. It's become much more defined with 3 sides remaining which is in direct contrast to the intricate web of politics the rest of the series was based on. I'd be surprised if the final season is rated as highly as the earlier seasons. It's too black and white now.

The big reveal for Jon last night wasn't just his parents but that he isn't a bastard due to the marriage. That gives him the legitimate claim for the throne. Also revealed is that Robert's Rebellion was based on a lie. They said Jon's mother was abducted and raped, but in reality they ran away together. So the Targaryan's loss of power was entirely a political maneuver by Robert Baratheon to take the throne. I didn't mind it as an ending because it fleshed out the backstory.

Yea but....we basically already knew that.

Also, I had to lulz at the fact that it took the Walkers seemingly 2 full seasons to march from the far north to the Wall while everyone else in Westeros can cross thousands of miles in one episode's time.

 

[Ace of Knights]

It pains me to say this but this show has really diminished in terms of quality and interesting plot lines. This was the first finale since the show began where I was genuinely bored in some spots. Not for lack of stuff going on, but for lack of unpredictability.

The big "reveal" was Jon's lineage? Anyone with a brain had already pieced that together 2 seasons ago; book readers had that pegged going back years. And the show couldn't even give us someone telling Jon this before ending this season??? Jesus man.

Also these "all star" reunions are feeling really forced and cheesy.

The best part of the episode was the dialogue between Tyrion and Cersei.

And Theon! Why do we give a shit about Theon? Or Yara? They continue devoting lots of time to these people who seem totally irrelevant to the larger plotline. Unless the grand scheme to save mankind is posting them up on the Iron Islands while the walkers overtake all of Westeros.

I get what you're saying but the politics and scheming was bound to die down as the walkers got closer. I agree, I don't care about Theon but I think he is going to play a major role.

He's going after Euron who is now going to Essos. Could be interesting. Really interesting is the fact that the Tycos from the Iron Bank has been cast for at least two episodes next season. I don't see the Iron Bank wanting to loan money to Cersei to fight a war that isn't the greatest threat.

Cersei scheming and Jamie abandoning her is the most interesting aspect.

 

[Ace of Knights]

But be prepared for a long wait. Apparently Season 8 won't be out until 2019.

 

[cnsaguy]

And Theon! Why do we give a shit about Theon? Or Yara? They continue devoting lots of time to these people who seem totally irrelevant to the larger plotline. Unless the grand scheme to save mankind is posting them up on the Iron Islands while the walkers overtake all of Westeros.

I said last night that I hope they don't leave the minor characters' story lines dangling. Not that I give a crap about Theon but they spent so much time on him during the series they need to bring it to a resolution or it would be really bad storytelling. He seems to be the only dangling character as the rest have joined up with the Lannisters or Jon/Dani.

Btw, if Dani is pregnant next year it will have officially jumped the shark.

 

[Knight_Light]

So which fanboys/girls are heading to Northern Island to see GOT Film locations?

 

[Great2BAKnight2]

I said last night that I hope they don't leave the minor characters' story lines dangling. Not that I give a crap about Theon but they spent so much time on him during the series they need to bring it to a resolution or it would be really bad storytelling. He seems to be the only dangling character as the rest have joined up with the Lannisters or Jon/Dani.

Btw, if Dani is pregnant next year it will have officially jumped the shark.

There's the Martel that's in the Dungeon with her poisoned daughter. I guess they could leave it be and you just assume the Daughter dies and she's alive watching, but typically if you don't see it on screen it didn't happen.

 

[Great2BAKnight2]

Yea but....we basically already knew that.

Also, I had to lulz at the fact that it took the Walkers seemingly 2 full seasons to march from the far north to the Wall while everyone else in Westeros can cross thousands of miles in one episode's time.

Yeah, I think they needed a dragon to get through the wall so they planned a trap to kill a dragon. My issue is the destruction of the wall was very brute force simple. The books allude to some magic that prevents them from going through so the show grossly simplified it IMO.

I do think the books will be a parallel universe and will not align to the show. This is GRRM life's work and I can see him giving the readers a different story/ending with more detail (like the above).

 

[Ace of Knights]

There's the Martel that's in the Dungeon with her poisoned daughter. I guess they could leave it be and you just assume the Daughter dies and she's alive watching, but typically if you don't see it on screen it didn't happen.

Apparently the actress who plays Ellaria Sand has come out and said, that her character is done on the show so that was it for her.

 

[UCFKnight85]

Yeah, I think they needed a dragon to get through the wall so they planned a trap to kill a dragon. My issue is the destruction of the wall was very brute force simple. The books allude to some magic that prevents them from going through so the show grossly simplified it IMO.

I do think the books will be a parallel universe and will not align to the show. This is GRRM life's work and I can see him giving the readers a different story/ending with more detail (like the above).

It's just too cheesy now. This show used to be awesome because it was so dirty, grimy, and things went really wrong....a lot. The last scene where Bran is explaining the lineage stuff, voiced over them getting it on, was something out of Lord of the Rings. Not GOT.

Honestly my favorite characters now are The Hound and Bronn. They're the leftovers from what the show was in S 1-3.

 

[Happy Hands]

It's just too cheesy now. This show used to be awesome because it was so dirty, grimy, and things went really wrong....a lot. The last scene where Bran is explaining the lineage stuff, voiced over them getting it on, was something out of Lord of the Rings. Not GOT.

Honestly my favorite characters now are The Hound and Bronn. They're the leftovers from what the show was in S 1-3.

This is correct. This season was by far the worst yet. It was written like that vampire show that HBO used to run.

The characters lacked depth and the faster pace destroyed the nuance that the plot development used to carry. That whole "Jon Snow getting a message to Daenerys in twenty minutes so she could save them with her dragon's thing sucked and it was obvious from the first crack of the ice what was going to happen. The sentencing of little finger was also as transparent.

Also, does Westeros have a booby shortage or something? Poor Tyrion hasn't seen a tiddy in a minute. No wonder he looked so pissed off at the end.

I actually hope the white walkers win.

 

[UCFKnight85]

This is correct. This season was by far the worst yet. It was written like that vampire show that HBO used to run.

The characters lacked depth and the faster pace destroyed the nuance that the plot development used to carry. That whole "Jon Snow getting a message to Daenerys in twenty minutes so she could save them with her dragon's thing sucked and it was obvious from the first crack of the ice what was going to happen. The sentencing of little finger was also as transparent.

Also, does Westeros have a booby shortage or something? Poor Tyrion hasn't seen a tiddy in a minute. No wonder he looked so pissed off at the end.

I actually hope the white walkers win.

I read something this morning saying that fans are so frustrated with Season 7 that HBO is already reshuffling who is going to be directing Season 8 episodes, and finding ways to make GRRM way more involved once again. Apparently he was "advising" this season but wasn't really there for day to day.

I agree with you- the only way for the show to redeem itself is with Season 8 beginning as Walkers are killing at least 2 major characters. It's gone off the rails.

 

[Great2BAKnight2]

I read something this morning saying that fans are so frustrated with Season 7 that HBO is already reshuffling who is going to be directing Season 8 episodes, and finding ways to make GRRM way more involved once again. Apparently he was "advising" this season but wasn't really there for day to day.

I agree with you- the only way for the show to redeem itself is with Season 8 beginning as Walkers are killing at least 2 major characters. It's gone off the rails.

I think the struggle is it's too late to introduce new characters and have any development. I thought Sam's family was going to have a longer stay, especially his brother who was a main character on Black Sails. From here out it will just be killing off existing characters until you get to the end. There's already foreshadowing on some deaths (Varys and Red Priestess). I do think GRRM needs to have a bigger role to give it the "feel" of previous seasons.

 

[UCFKnight85]

I think the struggle is it's too late to introduce new characters and have any development. I thought Sam's family was going to have a longer stay, especially his brother who was a main character on Black Sails. From here out it will just be killing off existing characters until you get to the end. There's already foreshadowing on some deaths (Varys and Red Priestess). I do think GRRM needs to have a bigger role to give it the "feel" of previous seasons.

This isn't really true though. We are dealing with characters that we've watched for 7 seasons now and have had a TON of backstory; it's totally possible to give them endings that don't necessarily all result in death. It would be fitting, for instance, of someone like Cersei ended with all power and wealth stripped away and was resigned to living out her life as a poor serf somewhere. I think we'll see a character or two wind up as a Walker.

However if killing off characters allows proper time to be spent on the remaining major characters, do it. I'd rather see the peripheral people go away and spend a lot of time on the main 4.

 

[UCFWayne]

As much as I have loved this season for finally getting to see all the big events weve been waiting to see, I cant help but feel cheated. This season has been a complete departure from all the other seasons. The gritty GRRM style has been cast aside for the Hollywood appeal. I mean, we knew this would happen, it just kind of taints it a little for me.

Im glad to see that Cersei is still scheming, it will be one of the few things that will keep this show interesting going into the final season in a couple years when they decide to finish it.

 

[Great2BAKnight2]

This isn't really true though. We are dealing with characters that we've watched for 7 seasons now and have had a TON of backstory; it's totally possible to give them endings that don't necessarily all result in death. It would be fitting, for instance, of someone like Cersei ended with all power and wealth stripped away and was resigned to living out her life as a poor serf somewhere. I think we'll see a character or two wind up as a Walker.

However if killing off characters allows proper time to be spent on the remaining major characters, do it. I'd rather see the peripheral people go away and spend a lot of time on the main 4.

You're right some stories may not end in death. Wrapping up the story arcs of all the characters will be a lot to fit into 7 episodes which is why I assumed they'd end in death. I think it's especially true for any "warrior" characters. They'll probably have a big battle where most of the warriors die in a very Hollywood sort of way.

While it would make sense for most to die in the final battle, having the Hound (or others) get a 20 second death scene would seem unfitting for a character who's been there since the beginning. That's what the damn giant got a few seasons back and that was a minor character with near-zero dialogue.

 

[UCFKnight85]

You're right some stories may not end in death. Wrapping up the story arcs of all the characters will be a lot to fit into 7 episodes which is why I assumed they'd end in death. I think it's especially true for any "warrior" characters. They'll probably have a big battle where most of the warriors die in a very Hollywood sort of way.

While it would make sense for most to die in the final battle, having the Hound (or others) get a 20 second death scene would seem unfitting for a character who's been there since the beginning. That's what the damn giant got a few seasons back and that was a minor character with near-zero dialogue.

Given how this season went, I now fully expect that characters will die in complete cheeseball slow-mo battle scenes where they then flash to a woman who "senses" their man has fallen. Or something.

The old GOT would have shown a victory on the battle field with everyone feeling smug and then having a character's throat slit during the celebration. The Red Wedding was badass because it was so brutally "do not give a shit" about offending sensitives and carnage. The only taste of that we had all of Season 7 was Arya massacring the Freys.

 

[barrister1602]

Also, does Westeros have a booby shortage or something?

Agree...more BEWBS!!!!

 

[sk8knight]

Relax. It's the setup for the end. Sometimes you need to feed the people a bit of what they want. But also, this is the setup to move all the pieces for the endgame. The crazier you get in the setup, the less you have in the endgame. No sense going all bitch now before we see what they have in the endgame.

 

[UCFhonors]

Seasons 5 & 6 were by far the worst seasons. Nothing happened

This season was great. Sure the nerds are going to hate not having all the plot holes and twists. But fans who like a logically consistent story loves this season.

The fact is about great segas is everyone loves the beginning where you get immersed into a new world. Children minded people will always cry that the ending is near.

 

[bullshiznitz]

I see a lot of people complaining that the last 3 seasons haven't been as good as the start. In general that may be true, but I think it loses sight that you had a completely full chessboard through most of the first 3-4 seasons. You had the Lannisters take over the crown, had the northern houses in rebellion (led by the Starks), the Baratheon brothers plotting to take back the crown, the Targaryens over seas plotting to gain an army and take back the crown, and multiple minor houses (Tyrells, Grayjoys, Frey's, Boltons, Martell / Sand Snakes, etc...) involved in the plotting and scheming. Fast forward to now, and the Baratheons are long gone, as well as all the minor houses except the Grayjoys. There's only so much plotting/scheming that can be done when 80% of the chess board pieces are gone.

 

[UCFWayne]

I see a lot of people complaining that the last 3 seasons haven't been as good as the start. In general that may be true, but I think it loses sight that you had a completely full chessboard through most of the first 3-4 seasons. You had the Lannisters take over the crown, had the northern houses in rebellion (led by the Starks), the Baratheon brothers plotting to take back the crown, the Targaryens over seas plotting to gain an army and take back the crown, and multiple minor houses (Tyrells, Grayjoys, Frey's, Boltons, Martell / Sand Snakes, etc...) involved in the plotting and scheming. Fast forward to now, and the Baratheons are long gone, as well as all the minor houses except the Grayjoys. There's only so much plotting/scheming that can be done when 80% of the chess board pieces are gone.

You make some good points, however I feel its more of the pace of the show and the Hollywoodizing of the past season that has put a slight stain on it for me.

 

[UCFKnight85]

I see a lot of people complaining that the last 3 seasons haven't been as good as the start. In general that may be true, but I think it loses sight that you had a completely full chessboard through most of the first 3-4 seasons. You had the Lannisters take over the crown, had the northern houses in rebellion (led by the Starks), the Baratheon brothers plotting to take back the crown, the Targaryens over seas plotting to gain an army and take back the crown, and multiple minor houses (Tyrells, Grayjoys, Frey's, Boltons, Martell / Sand Snakes, etc...) involved in the plotting and scheming. Fast forward to now, and the Baratheons are long gone, as well as all the minor houses except the Grayjoys. There's only so much plotting/scheming that can be done when 80% of the chess board pieces are gone.

I don't really care about plotting at this point, I do however still care about interesting character development and story telling.

This season ended with literally nothing happening that big fans couldn't have predicted to start the season. We have a pseudo alliance of mankind against the Walkers, who predictably finally breeched the wall, and we got to find out that Jon is a Targ even though everyone already knew that. And along the way, things got really cheesy.

 

[Great2BAKnight2]

I see a lot of people complaining that the last 3 seasons haven't been as good as the start. In general that may be true, but I think it loses sight that you had a completely full chessboard through most of the first 3-4 seasons. You had the Lannisters take over the crown, had the northern houses in rebellion (led by the Starks), the Baratheon brothers plotting to take back the crown, the Targaryens over seas plotting to gain an army and take back the crown, and multiple minor houses (Tyrells, Grayjoys, Frey's, Boltons, Martell / Sand Snakes, etc...) involved in the plotting and scheming. Fast forward to now, and the Baratheons are long gone, as well as all the minor houses except the Grayjoys. There's only so much plotting/scheming that can be done when 80% of the chess board pieces are gone.

You're right about the narrowing of the cast. It would be interesting to see a visual representation of all the plot lines merging over the seasons.

One thing GOT did very well early on is not letting you know who the main characters were, outside of Dany. It made it unpredictable. Once the main characters were known (arguably after Jon was raised from the dead and Cersei blew up the competition in Kings landing, it solidified the big 3), you knew they'd make it to the final season. I do think everyone's fair game next season though.