this is likely the reason 7 & 8 have largely felt rushed and disappointed. makes me question their ability to handle the star wars stuff in the future if they couldnt put 100% into ending GOT properly.
GoT (Spoilers)
- Thread starter Ace of Knights
- Start date
I think the Varys situation (along with Sansa and some other things) just put in her head that she wasn't going to be a beloved queen. I think Dany's whole arc has been about power, more so than freeing slaves and all that. She previously had people advising her that being beloved was better than being feared and basically kept her in check, and I think she now understands she isn't going to be a beloved queen, so being a feared queen is the other way of maintaining her power. Basically I don't ever think she was "good", I think she was using what she thought was the best approach to get the throne. And now with her claim being threatened and with people preferring Jon, she has turned to the other method. Again, I certainly think this should have been developed over several more episodes for sure.
I don't know if it is all due to the writers. I was looking at the HBO series and the major ones were all shorter than GoT. I've got to wonder if this wasn't HBO sticking to their original timeline and ending the story. I'd imagine that there are a ton of challenges in making these stories, like site logistics, talent mobility, etc. that make it a challenge to create the same show for more than a decade. It may be unfair to simply blame the writers.
I duno. Maybe. She still could have just torched Jon, torched the Red Keep, and eliminated the only 2 remaining threats to her at once. The people would have surely loved her for getting rid of Cersei and the Lannisters. They would have also feared her at the same time so long as she has a fire breathing dragon.
I disagree. Game of Thrones has been a HUGE moneymaker and status creator for the network so if the showrunners had told the Powers-that-Be that they'd like another 2-3 seasons producing of the hottest show on TV, you can bet that HBO would have jumped for joy.
Nah dude. HBO was all-in for many more seasons and episodes, GRRM wanted more seasons and episodes. HBO even offered to throw more money at D&D if they'd just include more episodes for this current season and they still said no.
This all came down to D&D being power hungry dicks who wanted this over as quickly as possible so they could collect Disney checks to start Star Wars.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulta...nes-final-seasons-was-a-mistake/#6346fdc1788a
Hell, these idiots tried in 2015 to get approval to end the show in Season 7 and HBO had to basically beg them not to. Could you imagine having gone from Season 6 into this show ending last year???
HBO would have absolutely funded this to go another 2 seasons to wrap everything up but ultimately they (stupidly) left the entire franchise to what D&D wanted. That was a mistake. It's HBO's show and they should have been more proactive in assuring it had time to properly end rather than rushing everything in a frantic, nonsensical manner.
But Jon has been loyal to her. If she torches Jon then that creates a whole new issue with people who were loyal to Jon and possibly a whole new war. But also, it seemed she did all this without putting in much thought. Her advisors were against it, so obviously she didn't use much input from others. When the bells started ringing it seemed like she could have gone either way, but ultimately decided to torch the place. I don't think she is a great strategic mind on her own.
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The clip also says she was ruthless like all Targaryens. Plus, characters change. I think she started out well intentioned, but ultimately still consumed by power, but after season 1 I always thought she was capable of being insane. I will say, usually the sign of a good show when people can watch the same things and have almost completely different takes on it.
Sansa Stark is ruthless. So was Varys. So was most everyone on this show. None of them were mass murderers
I was editing while you copied my post.
Sansa (who wasnt always ruthless) and Varys don't have Dany's lust for power though. Sansa just basically wants what is best for the north, and Varys just wanted a good king/queen. Dany's mission the entire show has been about obtaining power over the 7 kingdoms.
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Agree wholeheartedly with everything 85 has been saying. I've made it a point not to hate for the sake of hating but man. Yes this is still a GOOD show but you can't help but feel letdown by how poorly written and executed things have felt. And I know the TV show isn't necessarily made for the book readers but I can't imagine how they must feel.
If I were mentally up to it I would start a series re-watch just to see how evident it is when shit starts going downhill.
I'm totally fine with the end result being Dany going Mad Queen....hell I thought she would all along ... it just wasn't developed properly. And what they've done with Jaime and Tyrion arc is a disgrace. Simply put its laziness and reeks of just wanting to be done with it. And D&D have done themselves no favors with their smug interviews.
I cant help but think how much I'm being influenced by r/ and the Bald Move podcast but damn man.
If I were mentally up to it I would start a series re-watch just to see how evident it is when shit starts going downhill.
I'm totally fine with the end result being Dany going Mad Queen....hell I thought she would all along ... it just wasn't developed properly. And what they've done with Jaime and Tyrion arc is a disgrace. Simply put its laziness and reeks of just wanting to be done with it. And D&D have done themselves no favors with their smug interviews.
I cant help but think how much I'm being influenced by r/ and the Bald Move podcast but damn man.
These 2 random quotes from tweets basically sum up my frustration:
"It’s just hollow because the writers and especially D&D put plot ahead of character development for 2 seasons and lost all nuance in their storytelling"
"I guess ultimately I’m not that upset at where we ended up with the show... a lot of it makes sense! I just wish we would have gotten there in a manner that was more consistent with the depth and nuance that made the first six seasons so great"
"It’s just hollow because the writers and especially D&D put plot ahead of character development for 2 seasons and lost all nuance in their storytelling"
"I guess ultimately I’m not that upset at where we ended up with the show... a lot of it makes sense! I just wish we would have gotten there in a manner that was more consistent with the depth and nuance that made the first six seasons so great"
I just rewatched the scene from Season 4 where Tyrion is on trial for the murder of Joffrey with Tywin, Cersei, Jamie, Oeberynn, and Varys all in the room. That one single scene had more emphasis and power behind it than anything we’ve seen in the last 2 seasons. And the entire scene was just Tyrion in a room with these people. No CGI, no big budget adders - just incredible atmosphere, dialogue, and music.
Scenes like that didn’t even have a chance of making the cut this season or last.
And that's the thing. I see a lot of non or semi GOT fans on Facebook questionining why diehards are so bent out of shape. We fell in love BECAUSE of the things you mentioned ab that scene. The character development, the nuance, the GAME. It sure as hell wasn't the big budget CGI. Hell, we were deprived of direwolves bc it was too damn expensive! Now the CGI and big battles are used as a distraction but even then they screw the battle tactics up to the point you get distracted by how stupid some of the decisions are.
I wish they had gone 10 episodes for two full seasons. They pulled a bit of the Sopranos here—which worked fine because that series was dialogue driven and David Chase is one of the most brilliant writers in tv history.
It’s still good but i can see what the bitching is about. Plus this season has seriously lacked gratuitous sex scenes. For real.
There are a lot of morons who watch the show and think that huge battles and endless CGI are all they need. Dialogue is "boring".
But the absolute worst are the people who say "How can you complain? It's fantasy! There are dragons and walkers, omg!". These people are the worst. And often they don't know why we call them the worst which makes it worse.
I honestly think the problem is that everything the last two seasons has felt incredibly rushed.
If the showrunners had ended the series with 10 seasons instead of 7, I think we'd all have a very different opinion of what we've been watching. One of the secrets to the shows success is that the characters felt "real" and their motivations -- however noble or vile they were -- felt justified. Game of Thrones was the perfect title because we were fascinated watching the ever-changing positions on the chess board.
But in their rush to finish this series out, the show jumped into hyper-drive, destroying the carefully plotted, and well-acted foundation it had established over the first five seasons. The last episode of Season 5 (Jon's origin story revealed, Jon becomes King of the North, Cercei's crowning, and Dany sails to Westros) was absolutely amazing. IMHO, that was the high point of the series. In some ways, it might have been best just to end there and let our imaginations figure out how the rest of it played out.
If the showrunners had ended the series with 10 seasons instead of 7, I think we'd all have a very different opinion of what we've been watching. One of the secrets to the shows success is that the characters felt "real" and their motivations -- however noble or vile they were -- felt justified. Game of Thrones was the perfect title because we were fascinated watching the ever-changing positions on the chess board.
But in their rush to finish this series out, the show jumped into hyper-drive, destroying the carefully plotted, and well-acted foundation it had established over the first five seasons. The last episode of Season 5 (Jon's origin story revealed, Jon becomes King of the North, Cercei's crowning, and Dany sails to Westros) was absolutely amazing. IMHO, that was the high point of the series. In some ways, it might have been best just to end there and let our imaginations figure out how the rest of it played out.
hell i would even say 9 full seasons of 10 episodes each would have made the series so much better.
Meh. Whatever- give us this last episode and let's see whatever dumb ending they've put together. If I held out even a sliver of hope, it would be that these bozos will finally make Bran useful and interesting and give us some incredible trip into the past or future to explain the white walker lore or otherwise, but I think that's asking too much.
Half the episode will be some lame melodrama surrounding Dany and Jon, one or both will die, then we'll get some story wrap up footage on Sansa and Arya going off to do what they're going to do, Sam holding his child, Tormund hanging out with Ghost - and scene.
Actually I think the very last scene will serve as a shameless plug for this prequel series coming.
Half the episode will be some lame melodrama surrounding Dany and Jon, one or both will die, then we'll get some story wrap up footage on Sansa and Arya going off to do what they're going to do, Sam holding his child, Tormund hanging out with Ghost - and scene.
Actually I think the very last scene will serve as a shameless plug for this prequel series coming.
I wonder how much the showrunners have alienated their audience and done real damage to that prequel series.
It's interesting to see how these last two seasons of the TV show have changed the conventional wisdom about GRRM.
June, 2015: It's a real shame that the TV show is going to cast a big shadow over GRRM's final books in the Song of Ice & Fire --- heck, George may never ever finish them now!
Today: Whatever happens with the TV show's finale, fans can look forward to 'the legitimate' version of GRRM's story when the final two novels come out (to huge fanfare.)
June, 2015: It's a real shame that the TV show is going to cast a big shadow over GRRM's final books in the Song of Ice & Fire --- heck, George may never ever finish them now!
Today: Whatever happens with the TV show's finale, fans can look forward to 'the legitimate' version of GRRM's story when the final two novels come out (to huge fanfare.)
I don't think it'll have a bad impact on the prequel. People like me will tune in since we'll be eager to see if a new showrunner can use the HUGE amount of lore and history in the books to adapt it into a new show. The dummies who just want CGI and battles will still get it one way or another.
The challenge will simply be not having GRRM dialogue for characters like GOT had. The prequel will have all of the lore and history as presented in ASOIAF but none of the characters actually had dialogue, just references to them within current timeline context.
The one obvious common character is the Night King so I expect the prequel to take us back to the Age of Heroes. The only issue being, the NK in the book is really, really different than the goon they gave us in the show. The book NK lore and backstory is far more interesting than the (non) backstory the show gave us.
The question is whether anyone will still care about finally getting ADOS when it comes out 12 years from now.
A petition demanding that HBO redo Season 8 in a way that makes sense is now at 500,000 signatures.
![[roll]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/roll.r191677.gif "roll [roll]")
What a disaster for HBO. They let these two idiots dictate the entire show to them and now they're stuck with a shitty ending to their biggest show ever that most every fan hates. I wonder if Disney is getting cold feet about handing their most prized franchise to them?
What a disaster for HBO. They let these two idiots dictate the entire show to them and now they're stuck with a shitty ending to their biggest show ever that most every fan hates. I wonder if Disney is getting cold feet about handing their most prized franchise to them?
i was really excited about them doing the star wars stuff. now im in wait and see. i dont trust them anymore.A petition demanding that HBO redo Season 8 in a way that makes sense is now at 500,000 signatures.
What a disaster for HBO. They let these two idiots dictate the entire show to them and now they're stuck with a shitty ending to their biggest show ever that most every fan hates. I wonder if Disney is getting cold feet about handing their most prized franchise to them?
This is fantastic.A petition demanding that HBO redo Season 8 in a way that makes sense is now at 500,000 signatures.
What a disaster for HBO. They let these two idiots dictate the entire show to them and now they're stuck with a shitty ending to their biggest show ever that most every fan hates. I wonder if Disney is getting cold feet about handing their most prized franchise to them?
I was just thinking how awesome this all could have been if there was a 10 ep Season 8 and then a 7 ep Season 9 to finish.
You could have had basically the first half of Season 8 be all about the walkers, the NK, Bran and his visions, the politics in King's Landing, the politics in Winterfell, the battle of Winterfell being a siege rather than a 1 episode event, etc. They could have slowly built Dany into this ruler who increasingly uses innocent people to inflict her will. We'd get more of Cersei than her standing and looking out a fuking window.
Imagine if Daario and the Second Sons showed up and reported an underground insurgency in Mereen (you know, the kingdom Dany still fuking rules that we heard nothing more of?) and Dany started executing innocent people until they uproot who the traitors are? Then you at least have a story arc building to justify her nuking KL.
It's sad when I've read fan story boards online that are infinitely better than what D&D created over 2 frigging years.
You could have had basically the first half of Season 8 be all about the walkers, the NK, Bran and his visions, the politics in King's Landing, the politics in Winterfell, the battle of Winterfell being a siege rather than a 1 episode event, etc. They could have slowly built Dany into this ruler who increasingly uses innocent people to inflict her will. We'd get more of Cersei than her standing and looking out a fuking window.
Imagine if Daario and the Second Sons showed up and reported an underground insurgency in Mereen (you know, the kingdom Dany still fuking rules that we heard nothing more of?) and Dany started executing innocent people until they uproot who the traitors are? Then you at least have a story arc building to justify her nuking KL.
It's sad when I've read fan story boards online that are infinitely better than what D&D created over 2 frigging years.
I thought this nailed it.
"The show broke down the fundamental elements that make each character who they are in the viewers' minds, but they did so without explaining or motivating those breaks, leaving everyone confused and underwhelmed."
https://www.purewow.com/news/season-8-episode-5-kings-landing-battle-explained
"The show broke down the fundamental elements that make each character who they are in the viewers' minds, but they did so without explaining or motivating those breaks, leaving everyone confused and underwhelmed."
https://www.purewow.com/news/season-8-episode-5-kings-landing-battle-explained
Basically spot on. Largely what EVERYONE is saying about this insanely rushed story.
I mean, Shookster and Crazy have more chemistry than Jon and Dany do on the show. It's the least believable romance in TV history and yet his character is supposedly loyal to a fault for her (maybe 'til now) and she feels compelled to murder an entire city because he wouldn't give her the D again. They rushed that like they rushed everything. Him falling for Ygritte made a lot of sense and was emotionally rewarding because it built over an entire season.
Exactly. Shagging on a boat does not equal instant undying love and loyalty.
One way that last episode could have been slightly redeemed is if they had just shown us Dany's expressions and face at some point when she was riding around, exterminating everyone she saw. As dumb and as stupid as it was, at least seeing how this was impacting her would have helped SOMEWHAT. Maybe seeing her face and having her look like a total lunatic with varying emotions could have helped.
But nope. Instead we get 30 minutes of her and her dragon merely being plot devices and not one single shot of Dany.
But nope. Instead we get 30 minutes of her and her dragon merely being plot devices and not one single shot of Dany.
At this point I'm just here for the lulz
I do feel bad for the actors. They've done a great job despite having their characters largely butchered by really bad writing. You can tell they're pissed about how hurried this has been too since ultimately they invested so much into bringing these characters to life.
Despite how dumb last episode was for Dany, Emilia Clarke did an awesome job at least trying to sell it to us.
I haven’t read through all the shit in this post but has it been mentioned that Euron cuts out the tongues of the men he's spared during his pirate raids and makes them part of his crew. He does this so they can't challenge him or attempt to mutiny against him. This is mentioned in the show in both Season Eight and Season Seven.
Yet Euron and two of his shipmates yelled "Turn around!" after Dany zipped by them on her dragon.
Yet Euron and two of his shipmates yelled "Turn around!" after Dany zipped by them on her dragon.
Just erase HBO Euron from memory. The Euron character in the books is arguably on the most evil, psychopathic, interesting, and dangerous person ever written in literature; at least in this genre. He's traveled to Valyria, has the Dragonbinder, practices dark magic, has taken Warlocks hostage to use their powers, he raped his brothers as kids to assume power over them, he raped his brother's wife before being banished, he considers himself a god unto himself, he has a dragon egg, he wants power all to himself, and he was last seen in the books by sending his brother to solicit Dany's alliance - probably so he can bind a dragon and kill her. He's tall, pale, has long dark hair, wears an eye patch, etc.
The HBO Euron is a Johnny Depp acting fukboy whose entire motivation seems entirely to be sleeping with Cersei. That's it.
Terrible.
I suppose it could have been worse.
"Bring me that Narrow Sea horizon...and really bad dragon eggs.
Drink up me hearties, Yo ho!"
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