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Juneteenth Will Be a Federal Holiday

hemightbejeremy said:
Where did I say anything about your particular view? I couldn’t give two shits about that. I’m talking about the guy on Tucker Carltons show.
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His observations are valid and they are measurable and quantifiable because he actually did the research. To my knowledge, nobody has ever proven the bell curve to be fake science based on counter studies. If people could take the reactionary emotional response out of the equation, it wouldn't be that controversial.

For example, I can say that black people hold 87% of the top 50 scoring records in NBA history. Maybe there is a genetic aspect to that and maybe there isn't, but it isn't racist to just present the data and come to the conclusion that African Americans are more likely to be elite NBA players than white Americans. It doesn't assume causality, it just demonstrates correlation. That's what he is doing in his studies.
 
Crazyhole said:
His observations are valid and they are measurable and quantifiable because he actually did the research. To my knowledge, nobody has ever proven the bell curve to be fake science based on counter studies. If people could take the reactionary emotional response out of the equation, it wouldn't be that controversial.

For example, I can say that black people hold 87% of the top 50 scoring records in NBA history. Maybe there is a genetic aspect to that and maybe there isn't, but it isn't racist to just present the data and come to the conclusion that African Americans are more likely to be elite NBA players than white Americans. It doesn't assume causality, it just demonstrates correlation. That's what he is doing in his studies.
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Thinking white people have a superior set of DNA is the actual definition of white supremacy. You should understand that equating a low IQ with race without directly proving a casual relationship is controversial.
 
hemightbejeremy said:
I’m talking about the guy on Tucker Carltons show.
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that's what the discussion was about. It veered off into la-la land after Crazyhole said the following:
Crazyhole said:
There you go again. An objective observation about how race may be correlated to (x) is somehow inherently racist to you. Nothing he said was untrue, but you can't accept objective truth.
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It has been pointed out several times since Crazy's post that Tucker's guest -- the notorious author of The Bell Curve -- said on the show that Blacks don't have the same "cognitive" abilities for challenged job as whites do. And it's also been pointed out several times since, that Crazy agreed with him. Yet Crazyhole has continued to play a tap-dancing game that somehow that "it's all about 'objective observations."

What Crazyhole hasn't done -- and frankly, cannot do -- is explain how Charles Murray's psycho-babble stats can be used in any way, shape, or form to justify his BS about "the cognitive challenges" facing individual Black job seekers.

Murray's assertion is ridiculous on its face -- and no amount of babbling about 'other environmental factors' changes that undeniable fact.
 
DaShuckster said:
that's what the discussion was about. It veered off into la-la land after Crazyhole said the following:

It has been pointed out several times since Crazy's post that Tucker's guest -- the notorious author of The Bell Curve -- said on the show that Blacks don't have the same "cognitive" abilities for challenged job as whites do. And it's also been pointed out several times since, that Crazy agreed with him. Yet Crazyhole has continued to play a tap-dancing game that somehow that "it's all about 'objective observations."

What Crazyhole hasn't done -- and frankly, cannot do -- is explain how Charles Murray's psycho-babble stats can be used in any way, shape, or form to justify his BS about "the cognitive challenges" facing individual Black job seekers.

Murray's assertion is ridiculous on its face -- and no amount of babbling about 'other environmental factors' changes that undeniable fact.
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It's very simple. Those with lesser education have lesser cognitive skills.
Sorry if that offends you.
 
Crazyhole said:
It's very simple. Those with lesser education have lesser cognitive skills.
Sorry if that offends you.
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It IS very simple.

One's cognitive skills refer to the mental processes involved in gaining knowledge. These brain processes include thinking, knowing, remembering, judging, and problem-solving. Higher-level functions of the brain include language, imagination, perception, and planning.

'nuff said.
 
DaShuckster said:
It IS very simple.

One's cognitive skills refer to the mental processes involved in gaining knowledge. These brain processes include thinking, knowing, remembering, judging, and problem-solving. Higher-level functions of the brain include language, imagination, perception, and planning.

'nuff said.
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So what have you been in a huff about?
 
goodknightfl said:
So some dumb yoyo on TV makes a stupid statement, any you guys are going to argue about it. Stupid is as stupid does I guess.
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And yet, there is a deep debate here.

Otherwise, it's like saying the Civil War was about slavery. Of course it was about slavery, but it didn't address the economies and civil rights that go with it, which is why it didn't solve a lot through today, 160 years later.

Those who want the 3rd grader definition will only repeat history.
 
Crazyhole said:
Learning isn't education?
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We're splitting hairs now. You defined what you meant. That's good enough for me to follow your argument.

Influences and factors are what I really consider to be important, and you defined that as education. So I agree with your point, even if not your definition.

We have to really look at the influences and factors of African-Americans and see how we can accommodate things. There are many cases where American society needs to change, such as dress, hair and other styling, to be far more inclusive. That's on us, white males, heavily so. Same with speech and vocabulary. We need to be far more inclusive.

But there are also negative factors in African-American society, such as select lyrics and incarceration that need to be addressed. I think criminal justice reform would go a long way of providing a 'reset' with law enforcement and corrections, and then we can start addressing the overall negative aspects that have 'built up' as a result.

That's what you mean by education, which I call influences and factors.
 
chemmie said:
Why is Juneteenth just now being recognized? Is it just because of some "woke movement?"
There are a hell of a lot of people who believe that. They believe this is some fake, made up, bullshit to appease black folks.
That is racism.

It has taken until the 2010's and 2020's for somebody, not our schools and universities but just a grass roots ground "woke" movement, for the American public to finally learn about the day slavery finally ended in the United States. Even after slavery was illegal, many of our states refused to end the practice. This dark history of the United States has been completely whitewashed and downplayed, and few people care because they never learned about it.

Juneteenth is significant. There was a large group of people who didn't have freedom after July 4, 1776. Juneteenth was the day they finally received at least a portion of freedoms afforded to white Americans.

Not supporting this comes down to two possible reasons: ignorance of the significance, or racism.
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I am in favor of recognizing the end of slavery but the day is wrong. The 13th Amendment ended slavery and was ratified January 31,1865 and not in June. Juneteenth is a Texas thing and what we should be celebrating is the ratification of the 13th Amendment which evil Republicans and that evil white President Abraham Lincoln fought so hard to get passed.

I recognize that the slaves had no say in their situation. They were captured by a neighboring warring tribe and sold into bondage by their fellow Africans . They were forced into ships sent across the sea and forced to work in largely agricultural jobs in the Carribean and in America. The British ,Dutch and Portuguese were the slave traders largely and globally slavery was how the world was run and to this day in some places it still is.

As far as America goes we fought a bloody civil war with over a half million people being killed and countless more wounded. Yes , it wasn't 100% about ending slavery but here is the thing. The slaves didn't do anything to wrong to become slaves and likewise they for the most part didn't rise up to end it either . What I mean is their freedom was won by the sacrifice of others primarily white males in battle . My great,great uncle was a Sgt in union Blues and died at Gettysburg. I would like to believe it was for preserving the union and to end slavery. I would like to think his death resulted in part to the ratification of the 13th Amendment. I would like to believe his sacrifice resulted in the liberty of those in bondage.

We should celebrate Juneteenth/Ratification of the 13th Amendment and recognize that millions fought for the freedom of those in bondage. We should recognize that over half this country saw slavery as an abomination and they sent their sons into battle to do something about it. Slavery just didn't magically end and the slaves didn't earn their freedom by their own account. It was fought for and paid for in a bloody war. So, celebrate it all ..celebrate it for liberty of all and recognize the price paid for that freedom while we do it. celebrate the victory and honor the fallen, wounded and everyone else who fought for that victory. It seems to me Juneteenth should be a day of Thanksgiving of sorts and day of healing where we can all come together recognize the end of the abomination of slavery, give recognition for the price paid to end it and embrace the ideas that all men are created equal and endowed by their creator certain unalienable rights such as life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Juneteenth should be the day where Thomas Jefferson ideals were truly realized for all of us.
 
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Nautiknight said:
It seems to me Juneteenth should be a day of Thanksgiving of sorts and day of healing where we can all come together recognize the end of the abomination of slavery, give recognition for the price paid to end it and embrace the ideas that all men are created equal and endowed by their creator certain unalienable rights such as life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Juneteenth should be the day where Thomas Jefferson ideals were truly realized for all of us.
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If you had began and ended with this, I’d have given it a big thumb’s up but you didn’t…
Nautiknight said:
I am in favor of recognizing the end of slavery but the day is wrong.
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So instead of recognizing the actual day when American slavery ended, we should recognize the day a bunch of white guys in Washington made it official? Um, okay.
Nautiknight said:
I recognize that the slaves had no say in their situation. They were captured by a neighboring warring tribe and sold into bondage by their fellow Africans . They were forced into ships sent across the sea and forced to work in largely agricultural jobs in the Carribean and in America. The British ,Dutch and Portuguese were the slave traders largely and globally slavery was how the world was run and to this day in some places it still is.
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Your point? Does the complicity of others somehow absolve us of something?
Nautiknight said:
The slaves didn't do anything to wrong to become slaves and likewise they for the most part didn't rise up to end it either.
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WTF? Southern slaves were cool with their bondage?

You might want to delve into a history book and discover what happened to slaves who ‘rose up.’
Nautiknight said:
What I mean is their freedom was won by the sacrifice of others primarily white males in battle .
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I recognize and appreciate the sacrifice of ALL of our Union troops, black and white. I’m not getting why you felt the need to divide them by race.
 
Nautiknight said:
Juneteenth should be the day where Thomas Jefferson ideals were truly realized for all of us.
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I like to argue that as Adams-Jefferson ideals, Adams being the only early President who never owned slaves, and preferred paying free men.
 
So to the OP, how am I supposed to celebrate Juneteenth? From what I have been reading, it's supposed to be a day of celebration for black people and a day to reflect on shame and regret for white people.

It seems like it could be a cultural inclusion day, focusing on food and drink. Nothing brings people together more than food and drink.
 
Crazyhole said:
So to the OP, how am I supposed to celebrate Juneteenth? From what I have been reading, it's supposed to be a day of celebration for black people and a day to reflect on shame and regret for white people.

It seems like it could be a cultural inclusion day, focusing on food and drink. Nothing brings people together more than food and drink.
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Id celebrate with a handful of threads bitching about it. How do you celebrate Columbus Day? By not giving it a second thought. Try that.
 
Crazyhole said:
From what I have been reading, it's supposed to be a day of celebration for black people and a day to reflect on shame and regret for white people.
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Here’s a crazy thought: How about we all celebrate the end of American slavery? A feat we were somehow able to accomplish without tearing apart this great country. All thanks to the integrity and resolve of our greatest President and the valiant efforts of thousands of brave and courageous Union troops.

If Independence Day is the celebration of our country’s birth, Juneteenth is celebrating the fact Uncle Sam survived what could have been terminal cancer to become the greatest republic on Earth.
 
DaShuckster said:
Here’s a crazy thought: How about we all celebrate the end of American slavery? A feat we were somehow able to accomplish without tearing apart this great country. All thanks to the integrity and resolve of our greatest President and the valiant efforts of thousands of brave and courageous Union troops.

If Independence Day is the celebration of our country’s birth, Juneteenth is celebrating the fact Uncle Sam survived what could have been terminal cancer to become the greatest republic on Earth.
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Celebrate how? If we don't actually do something, all it becomes is just a day off. This holiday should have the type of remembrance that Thanksgiving does IMO.
 
I think it would be awesome if we celebrated Juneteenth by having "traditional" black meals. Fried catfish and chicken, cornbread, collard greens, watermelon, BBQ pork, black-eyed peas, sweet potatoes, etc. How cool would it be to treat this like Catholics treat Fridays during lent? It would make kids ask "why", which would give parents and grandparents an opportunity to talk about the meaning of the day.
 
Crazyhole said:
I think it would be awesome if we celebrated Juneteenth by having "traditional" black meals. Fried catfish and chicken, cornbread, collard greens, watermelon, BBQ pork, black-eyed peas, sweet potatoes, etc. How cool would it be to treat this like Catholics treat Fridays during lent? It would make kids ask "why", which would give parents and grandparents an opportunity to talk about the meaning of the day.
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Yes. Gitcha a box of KFC extra crispy, some watermelon, and a grape drank and call it a day. That will really make it special.
 
hemightbejeremy said:
Yes. Gitcha a box of KFC extra crispy, some watermelon, and a grape drank and call it a day. That will really make it special.
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No. I'm talking about having family or community get togethers where soul food is served. Food is the great uniter or cultures, so let's use it.
 
Crazyhole said:
When were African Americans considered 3/4ths of a human being? He clearly isn't as well read as he claims to be to not get that one correct or even understand the context of it.
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He meant 3/5s. I wish he were as well read as crackhead Hunter or Demented Joe.
 
DaShuckster said:
The General made it all crystal clear.

Half-way thru the General’s remarks, the camera caught Matt Gaetz smirking and shaking his head. If the General didn’t sway you, Gaetz’s reaction should have.
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Matt looks like he has Fetal Alcohol Syndrome.
 
KnighttimeJoe said:
He meant 3/5s. I wish he were as well read as crackhead Hunter or Demented Joe.
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What is WIDELY misunderstood about the 3/5 compromise is that it was never about an enslaved person’s humanity.

Slave states wanted slaves counted 100% when determining population and representation in Congress, even though they had no voting rights.

Non-slave states did not want slaves counted in drawing up the representative makeup of the House of Reps (and by extension, the electoral college).

This was a fight over the balance of power in congress between free and slave states, and the compromise was to allow a slave to count for 3/5.

If this was only about their humanity, it seems the side in favor of slavery is the one that wanted them to be counted fully as a human (except for, ya know, their inalienable rights, freedom, voting, etc) while the side that supposedly didn’t want them to be counted was doing so with the long term goal of not letting the slave states gain enough power to prevent the federal abolition of slavery.
 
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Knight In TN said:
What is WIDELY misunderstood about the 3/5 compromise is that it was never about an enslaved person’s humanity.

Slave states wanted slaves counted 100% when determining population and representation in Congress, even though they had no voting rights.

Non-slave states did not want slaves counted in drawing up the representative makeup of the House of Reps (and by extension, the electoral college).

This was a fight over the balance of power in congress between free and slave states, and the compromise was to allow a slave to count for 3/5.

If this was only about their humanity, it seems the side in favor of slavery is the one that wanted them to be counted fully as a human (except for, ya know, their inalienable rights, freedom, voting, etc) while the side that supposedly didn’t want them to be counted was doing so with the long term goal of not letting the slave states gain enough power to prevent the federal abolition of slavery.
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Quite the paradox, isn't it? Slave owners wanted to consider them 100% human beings, equal to all others, while the abolitionists only wanted to consider them 3/5ths human. Hard to take a side on that one.
 
Knight In TN said:
Slave states wanted slaves counted 100% when determining population and representation in Congress, even though they had no voting rights.
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I always thought the 3/5th Compromise destroyed any moral standing that American slave-owning States had. The Southern States had argued that they were humanitarians 'protecting' their slaves because they were 'too inferior' to fend for themselves. They also pointed to Bible passages to defend slavery.

But when it came to political power? Those same Southerners were quick to say 'the Blacks are all human beings and should be counted 100%!'
Knight In TN said:
What is WIDELY misunderstood about the 3/5 compromise is that it was never about an enslaved person’s humanity.
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I agree with your statement. However, the fact our country's leaders argued over "how much slaves should count?" was as direct a slam on these enslaved peoples' humanity as it gets.
 
Crazyhole said:
Quite the paradox, isn't it? Slave owners wanted to consider them 100% human beings, equal to all others, while the abolitionists only wanted to consider them 3/5ths human. Hard to take a side on that one.
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Abolitionists didn’t want them counted at all.

It’s hard to argue against the abolitionist position when you consider their legal standing in slave states. Slaves had no rights to speak of, so making an argument that the slave states should benefit from their residence in that state while affording them no basic human rights is a tough sell.
 
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Poolside Knight said:
sort of related but great response
View embedded media
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Nobody has a problem with open mind and being well read. They have a problem when CRT classes take a military unit into a classroom, put all the white soldiers on one side and the POC soldiers on the other, and then tell one side that the other side is racist and is oppressing them, whether consciously or not.
 
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sk8knight said:
They have a problem when CRT classes take a military unit into a classroom, put all the white soldiers on one side and the POC soldiers on the other, and then tell one side that the other side is racist and is oppressing them, whether consciously or not.
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CRT classes have done that? i find that hard to believe.
 
E4k-jFAVoAccsPz
 
Crazyhole said:
Quite the paradox, isn't it? Slave owners wanted to consider them 100% human beings, equal to all others, while the abolitionists only wanted to consider them 3/5ths human. Hard to take a side on that one.
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Slave owners wanting them to count as part of the population for representation #s in congress. They didn't want to count them in the population for the benefit of the actual slaves.
 
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KNIGHTTIME^ said:
Referring the 2018 caption of the caravas. Now the situation is worse with "cages" and nobody cares. It was all political.
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You’re talking to a group that agreed with all the commentators that said Trump was Hitler and everyone right of center were brown shorts and Nazis. They have no leg to stand on calling out Fox News for anything.
 
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