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orange man = bad economy

Most Americans feel like they are living paycheck to paycheck when the economy is doing well. The savings rate is woefully low for this long of a stretch of growth. So when the down cycle happens it's going to get very bad.

I actually agree with this but don't know what blame you're trying to assign here. Trump? I know people who make really good money but save absolutely nothing. If they lost their jobs they'd probably struggle to pay 1 months' worth of bills and the mortgage.

It's a systemic issue in America that exists at the individual household level.
 
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I actually agree with this but don't know what blame you're trying to assign here. Trump? I know people who make really good money but save absolutely nothing. If they lost their jobs they'd probably struggle to pay 1 months' worth of bills and the mortgage.

It's a systemic issue in America that exists at the individual household level.
The rich have become too rich.

It's time to end that. It's fine having rich people. It's fine if working hard to run a business earns you a nice lifestyle, but that's not what we are seeing.

In the past rich people even contributed to society by hiring people. Now they buy robots.

In the past rich people paid a top marginal tax rate of 90% so they ended up giving back to society. Now they pay effective tax rates of less than their secretaries.

So what good is it doing to allow the ultra rich to run wild in America? The people who are letting this happen are the ones like you who don't recognize that you're their little political foot soldier and they have you voting in their best interest while they are not acting in your best interest.
 
Here's the question you need to ponder. If the economy is so incredibly strong, why are American families not seeing huge benefits? If American families are still feeling the struggle of living paycheck to paycheck, where is all this economic growth going?
 
It’s even more disturbing that our government continues to overspend DESPITE a strong economy. Funny, isn’t the argument that these big corporate tax cuts actually end up cutting the deficit? How’s that working out for us?

What’s going to happen to the deficit when the economy goes south again? The one thing I do know is the the Usual Suspects will ignore what’s going on with Trump and blame those spend-crazy Democrats.
 
The rich have become too rich.

It's time to end that. It's fine having rich people. It's fine if working hard to run a business earns you a nice lifestyle, but that's not what we are seeing.

In the past rich people even contributed to society by hiring people. Now they buy robots.

In the past rich people paid a top marginal tax rate of 90% so they ended up giving back to society. Now they pay effective tax rates of less than their secretaries.

So what good is it doing to allow the ultra rich to run wild in America? The people who are letting this happen are the ones like you who don't recognize that you're their little political foot soldier and they have you voting in their best interest while they are not acting in your best interest.

lol and here I thought that maybe, MAYBE, you were going to launch us into a sensible and intelligent discussion on modern economics and personal savings habits.

Instead, I get a response full of worthless platitudes about evil rich people, how awesome 90% marginal rates were, and fear mongering about rich people that came straight from a socialists' notepad.

Thanks for informing us that Americans' unwillingness to put away savings each month is the fault of meanie rich people.
 
It’s even more disturbing that our government continues to overspend DESPITE a strong economy. Funny, isn’t the argument that these big corporate tax cuts actually end up cutting the deficit? How’s that working out for us?

What’s going to happen to the deficit when the economy goes south again? The one thing I do know is the the Usual Suspects will ignore what’s going on with Trump and blame those spend-crazy Democrats.

Yawn. US Federal Revenue was up in 2018 Y-Y vs. 2017. We brought in more revenue even with the tax cuts. We have a deficit because both parties got stupid and lazy and passed a $350B new spending bill that went into effect.

We had a $500B deficit when Obama was leaving. They added $350B in new spending, and we have entitlement spending growing at an unsustainable rate. And there you go.

I also eagerly await you guys to continue this concern about deficits when we get to DNC zealots wanting to put in place Medicare for All or "Green New Deals" at the tiny cost of $70-90T over 10 years.
 
The rich have become too rich.

It's time to end that. It's fine having rich people. It's fine if working hard to run a business earns you a nice lifestyle, but that's not what we are seeing.

In the past rich people even contributed to society by hiring people. Now they buy robots.

In the past rich people paid a top marginal tax rate of 90% so they ended up giving back to society. Now they pay effective tax rates of less than their secretaries.

So what good is it doing to allow the ultra rich to run wild in America? The people who are letting this happen are the ones like you who don't recognize that you're their little political foot soldier and they have you voting in their best interest while they are not acting in your best interest.
didnt you claim your grandparents have over $2m? i think you should convince your grandparents to write a big check to the irs.

also are they over 80? there are these nice euthanasia clinics overseas that you could point them to.
 
The rich have become too rich.

It's time to end that. It's fine having rich people. It's fine if working hard to run a business earns you a nice lifestyle, but that's not what we are seeing.

In the past rich people even contributed to society by hiring people. Now they buy robots.

In the past rich people paid a top marginal tax rate of 90% so they ended up giving back to society. Now they pay effective tax rates of less than their secretaries.

So what good is it doing to allow the ultra rich to run wild in America? The people who are letting this happen are the ones like you who don't recognize that you're their little political foot soldier and they have you voting in their best interest while they are not acting in your best interest.

I'm not going to go so far as to say I agree with this, but you did a good job of pointing out the problem. If I were forced to find 1 tax law that has contributed to this it is in Capital Gains. The hardcore right will say that its an unfair tax because it's taxing money twice but that is really disingenuous. The left wants to raise income taxes but that doesn't address the vast wealth that some people have made and just stashed away, particularly in the stock market and in real estate properties. Depreciation schedules for appreciable assets just makes the situation worse. When you can depreciate something over 30+ years and then transfer deeds into family trusts helps to create a 2-tiered system.
 
It’s even more disturbing that our government continues to overspend DESPITE a strong economy. Funny, isn’t the argument that these big corporate tax cuts actually end up cutting the deficit? How’s that working out for us?

What’s going to happen to the deficit when the economy goes south again? The one thing I do know is the the Usual Suspects will ignore what’s going on with Trump and blame those spend-crazy Democrats.

The argument for corporate tax cuts is solid. It has been proven over and over that it leads to higher revenues. The Laffer Curve demonstrates this. The problem, that you pointed out, is that growth in spending is the problem. Growth in spending always leads growth in revenue by a few years when politicians know that revenue is going to increase. The Penny Plan was by far the most responsible approach to addressing the problem but his suggested 1% per year cuts were called "draconian" by the left. If we were to implement that right now, with the expected increases in revenue we would balance the budget in half the time as when he first presented it and we could then start looking at how aggressive we want to be with paying down old debts.
 
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I'm not going to go so far as to say I agree with this, but you did a good job of pointing out the problem. If I were forced to find 1 tax law that has contributed to this it is in Capital Gains. The hardcore right will say that its an unfair tax because it's taxing money twice but that is really disingenuous. The left wants to raise income taxes but that doesn't address the vast wealth that some people have made and just stashed away, particularly in the stock market and in real estate properties. Depreciation schedules for appreciable assets just makes the situation worse. When you can depreciate something over 30+ years and then transfer deeds into family trusts helps to create a 2-tiered system.

Favorable capital gains taxation encourages risk taking in the market. In the end, getting more people invested is still a boost to the US Treasury bottom line.

20% of a $10M capital gain is $2M. 20% of a $20M capital gain is $4M. The treasury makes more when people with a lot of money to invest do so and participate in the market.

I'm not saying 20% is a perfect number but that's why it's different than income taxation. Fore very incremental increase in capital gains taxes, your assessment on whether the risk of being in the market or not changes based upon the return.
 
Favorable capital gains taxation encourages risk taking in the market. In the end, getting more people invested is still a boost to the US Treasury bottom line.

20% of a $10M capital gain is $2M. 20% of a $20M capital gain is $4M. The treasury makes more when people with a lot of money to invest do so and participate in the market.

I'm not saying 20% is a perfect number but that's why it's different than income taxation. Fore very incremental increase in capital gains taxes, your assessment on whether the risk of being in the market or not changes based upon the return.
This is true, but when you can put money into an appreciable asset and defer your taxation until that asset is sold, potentially indefinitely, then it slows down MV, which is where wealth and tax-base truly comes from. Even worse, it artifically changes balance sheets which allows people to borrow money and purchase more assets. The cycle perpetuates itself and it is consolidating far too much wealth in the hands of too few.
 
All of this is really just a weird tangent that started when FC decided that he was going to make Americans' long standing bad habit of saving little to nothing the fault of rich people and droning on about 90% tax rates or something.
 
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didnt you claim your grandparents have over $2m? i think you should convince your grandparents to write a big check to the irs.

also are they over 80? there are these nice euthanasia clinics overseas that you could point them to.
Of course my grandparents have over 2 million. I'd love for them to pay their fair share.
 
Of course my grandparents have over 2 million. I'd love for them to pay their fair share.

[roll][roll][roll][roll][roll][roll][roll]

The epitome of a liberals' tax policy desire. Brag about your grandparents working and saving all their life to have $2M in retirement, then bash them for being evil rich people, and declare that you want to punitively tax that wealth to make them poorer, thereby making them more likely to need more government assistance that they want funded by...…..wealthy people subject to a wealth tax.

My God
 
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In the past, we have allowed people to get wealthy because they helped support our communities. Let me ask you what value a community sees in a fully automated factory and a company that pays a low tax rate? They have stopped giving back to the economy in the form of wages and are only acting to siphon off wealth into their own accounts. This is killing velocity of money.
 
Its time for you all to become comfortable with the idea of universal basic income.

Andrew Yang is pushing it hard and it's the only system that works in an automated economy.
 
[roll][roll][roll][roll][roll][roll][roll]

The epitome of a liberals' tax policy desire. Brag about your grandparents working and saving all their life to have $2M in retirement, then bash them for being evil rich people, and declare that you want to punitively tax that wealth to make them poorer, thereby making them more likely to need more government assistance that they want funded by...…..wealthy people subject to a wealth tax.

My God
You think I'm bragging about my grandparents having 2 Million? That's how I know you're a grunt for the wealthy. 2M in retirement is nothing. It's a scrap. People who are 80 years old who have managed to save 2 Million bucks are not even close nor have they ever been close to earning even 200k per year throughout their life. No one is saying the people with small 2 million dollar retirement accounts are the problem. Everyone should aim for that amount.
 
You think I'm bragging about my grandparents having 2 Million? That's how I know you're a grunt for the wealthy. 2M in retirement is nothing. It's a scrap. People who are 80 years old who have managed to save 2 Million bucks are not even close nor have they ever been close to earning even 200k per year throughout their life. No one is saying the people with small 2 million dollar retirement accounts are the problem. Everyone should aim for that amount.

Ok, so $2M in retirement really isn't that much, but you want them to pay more in taxes to "pay their fair share"?

Are you being this incoherent on purpose?

[roll]
 
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https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/05/business/jobs-report-unemployment-march.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/05/nonfarm-payrolls-march-2019.html
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-05/u-s-payrolls-top-estimates-with-196-000-rise-wage-gains-ease

ECONOMY ADDS 196,000 JOBS IN MARCH, BEATING EXPECTATIONS
by Kevin Ryan

The economy grew by 196,000 jobs in March, beating economists’ expectations and providing reassuring evidence that the economy remains strong. Economists had forecast a gain of 170,000 jobs.

Unemployment remained at 3.8%, near its 50 year low.

Wages were 3.2% higher than a year earlier. That’s slightly smaller than February’s growth, which was the largest wage increase in a decade.

The strong March numbers are a welcome sign that job creation remains robust and relieves some of the doubts hanging over the economy since last month’s unexpectedly weak report. Most economists shrugged off February’s anemic job creation of just 33,000 new jobs, saying the numbers were affected by cold weather and the partial government shutdown.

While analysts still expect the economy to slow from last year’s strong pace amidst a continuing international downturn, domestic economic conditions now look more favorable than they did at the start of the year. First-quarter GDP is now projected to rise 2.1%, according to the Atlanta Fed, which had been tracking gains of just 0.2% only a few weeks ago.


terrible news. :(
 
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https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/05/business/jobs-report-unemployment-march.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/05/nonfarm-payrolls-march-2019.html
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-05/u-s-payrolls-top-estimates-with-196-000-rise-wage-gains-ease

ECONOMY ADDS 196,000 JOBS IN MARCH, BEATING EXPECTATIONS
by Kevin Ryan

The economy grew by 196,000 jobs in March, beating economists’ expectations and providing reassuring evidence that the economy remains strong. Economists had forecast a gain of 170,000 jobs.

Unemployment remained at 3.8%, near its 50 year low.

Wages were 3.2% higher than a year earlier. That’s slightly smaller than February’s growth, which was the largest wage increase in a decade.

The strong March numbers are a welcome sign that job creation remains robust and relieves some of the doubts hanging over the economy since last month’s unexpectedly weak report. Most economists shrugged off February’s anemic job creation of just 33,000 new jobs, saying the numbers were affected by cold weather and the partial government shutdown.

While analysts still expect the economy to slow from last year’s strong pace amidst a continuing international downturn, domestic economic conditions now look more favorable than they did at the start of the year. First-quarter GDP is now projected to rise 2.1%, according to the Atlanta Fed, which had been tracking gains of just 0.2% only a few weeks ago.


terrible news. :(
 
so shook that the us economy is doing well.
Economy has improved some and some more people working. That is all good, but it doesnt paint the whole picture, especially when you have large numbers of people simply not looking for work anymore.
 
Last edited:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/05/business/jobs-report-unemployment-march.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/05/nonfarm-payrolls-march-2019.html
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-05/u-s-payrolls-top-estimates-with-196-000-rise-wage-gains-ease

ECONOMY ADDS 196,000 JOBS IN MARCH, BEATING EXPECTATIONS
by Kevin Ryan

The economy grew by 196,000 jobs in March, beating economists’ expectations and providing reassuring evidence that the economy remains strong. Economists had forecast a gain of 170,000 jobs.

Unemployment remained at 3.8%, near its 50 year low.

Wages were 3.2% higher than a year earlier. That’s slightly smaller than February’s growth, which was the largest wage increase in a decade.

The strong March numbers are a welcome sign that job creation remains robust and relieves some of the doubts hanging over the economy since last month’s unexpectedly weak report. Most economists shrugged off February’s anemic job creation of just 33,000 new jobs, saying the numbers were affected by cold weather and the partial government shutdown.

While analysts still expect the economy to slow from last year’s strong pace amidst a continuing international downturn, domestic economic conditions now look more favorable than they did at the start of the year. First-quarter GDP is now projected to rise 2.1%, according to the Atlanta Fed, which had been tracking gains of just 0.2% only a few weeks ago.


terrible news. :(
This result even though you have more states passing $15+ minimum wage laws slowing growth in small businesses and losing small businesses in some cases.

If you want to distribute wealth, make it advantageous for small business to start and thrive. If you want to consolidate wealth, favor the entrenched, larger companies. Which set of policies does the wealth envy crowd really favor?
 
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Economy has improved some and some more people working. That is all good, but it doesnt paint the whole picture, especially when you have large numbers of people simply not looking for work anymore.

Your butthurt pissing and moaning about good news from the Trump economy can't diminish this:

Wages were 3.2% higher than a year earlier. That’s slightly smaller than February’s growth, which was the largest wage increase in a decade.
 
Your butthurt pissing and moaning about good news from the Trump economy can't diminish this:

Wages were 3.2% higher than a year earlier. That’s slightly smaller than February’s growth, which was the largest wage increase in a decade.
I think statement stands. It's very important to paint the whole picture. I'm sure all the red hats like you and @UCFWayne can agree with that.
 
yea the whole picture looks really good for trumps economy. for people that suffer from tds thats terrible news.
Yeah I do agree that it's strange how people with a political motive create qualifiers of when unemployment rate is valid and when it's not valid based only on what political party is in charge when they are trying to make their point.
 
Yeah I do agree that it's strange how people with a political motive create qualifiers of when unemployment rate is valid and when it's not valid based only on what political party is in charge when they are trying to make their point.
i get it, you hate historic unemployment lows.
 
Really? WE did that? How nice of us.
Uh yeah, we have a system based on allowing people to get wealthy and the assumption that by allowing that to happen they will reinvest and provide jobs and try to get richer and pull people up with them. It used to benefit society, that's changing.

My original hypothetical stands. What benefit to society is there for a fully automated company that makes a shit ton of money but doesn't actually employ people anymore, it just owns robots.

We don't have a need for a business like that if that becomes the norm and businesses like that are killing businesses that actually pull people up with wages.

I would never say to fight innovation but we need a new system for getting wealth to people.
 
i get it, you hate historic unemployment lows.
I actually like them as a tool for measuring unemployment and I've never been stupid enough to try to diminish the data by adding pointless qualifiers like the labor participation rate.
 
Uh yeah, we have a system based on allowing people to get wealthy and the assumption that by allowing that to happen they will reinvest and provide jobs and try to get richer and pull people up with them. It used to benefit society, that's changing.

My original hypothetical stands. What benefit to society is there for a fully automated company that makes a shit ton of money but doesn't actually employ people anymore, it just owns robots.

We don't have a need for a business like that if that becomes the norm and businesses like that are killing businesses that actually pull people up with wages.

I would never say to fight innovation but we need a new system for getting wealth to people.

Sorry but people get wealthy on their own, not because socialist chumps like you "allowed them to".
 
Uh yeah, we have a system based on allowing people to get wealthy and the assumption that by allowing that to happen they will reinvest and provide jobs and try to get richer and pull people up with them. It used to benefit society, that's changing.

My original hypothetical stands. What benefit to society is there for a fully automated company that makes a shit ton of money but doesn't actually employ people anymore, it just owns robots.

We don't have a need for a business like that if that becomes the norm and businesses like that are killing businesses that actually pull people up with wages.

I would never say to fight innovation but we need a new system for getting wealth to people.
your family is made up of terrible people that amassed a great deal of money at the expense of a lot of hard working people. you proclaim that you are one of the regular people while actually being part of the problem. i dont know how you sleep at night.
 
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your family is made up of terrible people that amassed a great deal of money at the expense of a lot of hard working people. you proclaim that you are one of the regular people while actually being part of the problem. i dont know how you sleep at night.
Lol someone with 2 million bucks after a lifetime of work being who you think of as wealthy.
 
Sorry but people get wealthy on their own, not because socialist chumps like you "allowed them to".
We support a system that allows people to get insanely wealthy. If people being insanely wealthy is no longer good for society then we need to change the way we do business. No one should be worth 100 billion dollars while putting a net Americans out of work and not paying taxes. We have that in America which means the system is not working as intended any longer.
 
We support a system that allows people to get insanely wealthy. If people being insanely wealthy is no longer good for society then we need to change the way we do business. No one should be worth 100 billion dollars while putting a net Americans out of work and not paying taxes. We have that in America which means the system is not working as intended any longer.
No one should make bad choices in their lives to neglect their education or break the laws or get hooked on drugs either. Taking money from people making good decisions with their lives is not going to fix the problems of people making bad decisions. Even if you were right about the free market being bad, how are you going to fix the cultural issues in the poorer communities other than just redistributing wealth?
 
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