Context always matters. It was a throwaway line and it was long before anything happened at the capitol.
Trump’s direct calls to go down to the Capitol building are the problem here, not Giuliani’s poor word choice in describing a legal battle.
Protested have breeched Capitol, Militia outside Ga Capitol...
- Thread starter Trigeek
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Trump’s direct calls to go down to the Capitol building are the problem here, not Giuliani’s poor word choice in describing a legal battle.
You have to separate the bat-shit, radicalized faction (that showed up in DC yesterday) from the 10's of millions of other people that support Trump but wouldn't ever end up in a situation like yesterday.
Think of it this way - you're a poor working class person who can't get ahead. If you live in an urban center, you're probably a democrat and might buy into AOC or Bernie explanations for your problems. If you're a poor rural working class citizen, you feel totally disconnected from the "elite" DC decision makers who think they know what's best for you.
Both people have the same underlying problems, but because of various culture driven differences, they've bought into completely different explanations for their problems and thus different solutions.
Trump didn't figure out economic populism until December 2020 when he pushed for $2,000 stimulus checks. If Trump calls that "socialism" then his base thinks it's terrible. As soon as he supports it, they're on board. Can you imagine if he had learned that 3 years ago? How much bi-partisan pro-worker/little-guy legislation he could have championed?
Imagine you're the evil corporate overlord who wants to suppress the working class. You have to keep them divided. Cultural wedge issues is how you do that. Think what you want of Trump supporters - many of them brainwashed by right-wing propoganda - but they genuinely believe Trump is fighting on their behalf against a failed DC ecosystem that works for the powerful.
Seeing Hawley stand with Sanders in support of $2k checks tells you something. The energy on the right is directed very poorly right now. But it's driven by the same core problems (wealth concentration / inequality) that is driving the energy on the left. If Biden is smart, he will focus on the economic side of this and tread cautiously on the cultural wedge issues.
What unites the populist right and left? Siding with people over corporations and lobbyists.
Such false equivalency. POTUS spent two months repeating lies for the sole purpose of riling up his base so they'd demand congress do something unconstitutional and show up in DC on Jan 6th. POTUS owns this all by himself.
United States Senators and Representatives had to run and hide from a mob of crazies flying Trump and Confederate Flags inside the United States Capitol. Mitch McConnel called it an insurrection. POTUS incited an insurrection to delay his own losing vote. This is the stuff for history books. I promise you, they won't be comparing this to BLM.
We will have to agree to disagree. Context matters but it is not up to me and you to decipher the context. When Giuliani says “let’s have trial by combat” you can tell from the crowd reaction that any “context” was lost on many in attendance.
I don’t disagree; it was lost on many. That’s a far cry from actual incitement.
I’m sorry... who is the evil corporate overlord, and what do they gain from suppressing the working class?
I see this trope and I’m baffled every time.
In 2016 I would agree with this assessment (to an extent anyway). But in 2020 we know that Trump is not a populist. He accomplished little to nothing for working people, and quite frankly, didn't even try to accomplish that much, outside of the $2000 checks. HIs administration was just as swampy, or I would even argue swampier, than all of them.
His supporters might believe he is fighting for them, but that doesn't make it true. And just like we shouldn't have to pretend the election was stolen because people believe it, we also don't have to pretend that Trump is a populist simply because a lot of his supporters believe it. At some point the actual truth has to start winning the day or this country is going to be on its death bed.
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I agree. However, the problem is funding. I get that providing stimulus checks in some regard is circular in the sense that it will be spent, boost the economy, generate revenue etc... However, so many on the right have been scared into thinking we must spend proportionately higher budget on the military because China and Russia are waiting to overthrow, which I believe is corporate welfare, pork whatever you name it. If you told the struggling right wing poor (Trumpets) that we will provide you stimulus checks, pay for your health care, fully fund your education but we will no longer spend proportionally higher on the military and prisons. How do they react?
The radical movement is the one where they are trying to overthrow our democratic process, and they are being lead by a conspiracy theory president. I think the problem is people on the right, aren't able to recognize what a large segment of their side, actually is. Some of you live in a state of denial.
Ironic that Mr. Law and Order is pointing fingers at "the radical left."
What happened to the @sk8knight who says our laws need to be obeyed?
When did I ever say our laws didn't need to be obeyed? You even liked a comment where I said everyone who broke the law needed to be prosecuted. Why now are you intentionally ignoring that to paint an erroneous picture of me?
Point taken. I was responding to the classic 'whaddabout' post you made, excusing the radical right by pointing a finger at the radical left. In hindsight, it was a ill-considered response. My apologies.
You're just proving that you buy into the whole "Trump is Evil and will end the free world conspiracy theory" and that you don't understand either side.
Antifa is about power. BLM is about power. Proud boys are about power. The media selectively reporting things is about power. The social media companies selectively censoring things is about power. The Trump supporters are about power. Politicians are about power. Just not all in the same way.
Most of the people at BLM rallies are protesting their lack of power to be heard and respected in government and in society. Most of the people at the Trump rallies are protesting their lack of power to be heard and respected in government and society. They are two sides of the same coin that have very real complaints and legitimate reasons for how they feel.
Unfortunately, people in BLM rallies felt like nothing was working and so resorted to political violence when they feel nothing else worked. This was praised and/or excused by media and Democrat politicians and thereby sanctioned to a degree. In some cases, media and Democrat politicians actually encouraged it. Unfortunately, people who feel that the political agenda of the Trump administration had been actively subverted for years and culminated in the absolute refusal to perform an investigation into the election concerns made the bad decision to turn to political violence. In this case, media and politicians from both sides loudly condemned the violence.
Political violence should be unacceptable in this society. It's sad that Pandora is out of the box. I just don't know what people on either side can do at this point now when politicians on both sides and the media that is supposed to speak for the people are all playing groups of people against each other for their own power gains.
No I am "proving" what is right in front of any reasonable persons eyes. He has been saying for weeks that the election was stolen with no evidence, and then he incited his supporters to act on it. That happened, that is a fact. If you cant see it that, that is on you.
BLM is about not having black people unnecessarily shot by police. Your side literally tried to over throw the government and you refer to it as a "movement". So, not wanting to be shot by police=radical. Wanting to overthrow the government because their candidate didn't win= movement. If you are trying to compare these things, then there is a pretty obvious reason why.
You believe there is no evidence. They believe there is clear and compelling evidence that they have been prevented from bringing to the court. No matter how much you want to call them crazy, they never actually got to produce that evidence before a court, a legislation, or any other entity.
They occupied a few offices and conference rooms. They were not ever going to overthrow the government with their actions. Stop with the hyperbole.
And again, you oversimplify the BLM. Their multiple manifestoes go far beyond not wanting to get shot by a cop and much of it is, indeed, radical.
It doesn't matter if they were going to succeed, they were trying to and actually got into congress for the first time since the British did it in the war of 1812. Again, the fact that you cant see who the actual radicals are is your fault. You are blind and gullible.
This is so stupid. They absolutely presented evidence before court, and the courts said there evidence amounted to nothing. Just because you don't accept reality, doesnt mean that everyone else has to ignore it.
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The ability to overthrow a government is limited only by the size of the overthrowing force. Yes a group of thousands at the Capitol will not possess the necessary force required, but our system of government is fragile. It is held together by an adherence to laws and a piece of paper. Not by any magical force.
And again, you try to politicize the BLM movement.
The vast majority of people who attend a 'Black Lives Matter' march are there because they are sick and tired of the treatment Blacks receive from some police officers, period.
Not to mention, several were seen with zip ties, which means they were likely looking to take hostages. It could have been much worse than it was. But hey, they were white Trump supporters, so in SK8's world they cant be radical, just some good ole boys foolin' around.
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What hyperbole? Was the goal to occupy an empty Capitol building? If you watch the videos it’s pretty clear some wanted go get to the government officials inside. You know, the ones counting the electoral votes. If you think this was just about a photo op in Pelosi’s chair you are being naive. The government officials being successfully evacuated and thus not present in areas breached (the woman killed by SS notwithstanding) doesn’t downgrade the seriousness of the offense.
What hyperbole? Their goal never was to 'overthrow the government.' They were there with the sole purpose of disrupting the proceedings inside the Capital building where Congress was engaged in finalizing Biden's EC election win.
Mission accomplished!!!!
Unfortunately for them, the mob didn't put an end to it all together. Congress reconvened later in the evening and -- with no nonsense coming from Mike Pence as Trump publicly demanded -- the deed was done.
lol at DS and jeremy trying to debate with an inbred moron like sk8.
Just as a reminder, sk8 "doesn't think trump lies"
You can't use logic and reason on a moron. These anti-american cult members live in their own reality, and you will not change their mind no matter how much truth you have on your side. You are better off debating a toaster.
Just as a reminder, sk8 "doesn't think trump lies"
You can't use logic and reason on a moron. These anti-american cult members live in their own reality, and you will not change their mind no matter how much truth you have on your side. You are better off debating a toaster.
No, no they didn’t. They presented lists of evidence that they were in the process of gathering. The courts mostly ruled on process points or time constraints. Don’t come to me with lies and say that I’m not embracing reality.
A spontaneous occupation of one building for a couple of hours is far from a coup attempt to overthrow a government.
Capitol Police officer on life support after pro-Trump riot, union official says | CNN Politics
A Capitol Police officer is on life support Thursday night after a mob of President Donald Trump's supporters stormed the US Capitol a day before, according to Capitol Police union chair Gus Papathanasiou.
Oh I’m sure there were radicals in that group yesterday. Why can’t you acknowledge the radicals that caused chaos across the country for months? I’ll answer that for you, because you support the people on your side and don’t think they’re radical at all. You’re the one that refuses to see the radicals in your group and yet you project your bigotry on me. What would you do if you didn’t have projection?
Call it whatever makes you sleep better I guess. The end result of what occurred yesterday didn’t come about from a lack of want on the part of rioters but rather a lack of manpower to overwhelm all available forces against them. The movement only fails until it is strong enough to succeed.
Because we have talked about that ad nauseum for months. All you are doing is trying to deflect and make excuses.
There was nothing spontaneous about this. This was planned and Trump has been hyping it up for weeks. Just more excuses.
