Rising Covid cases
- Thread starter UCFVanWilder
- Start date
Obesity is not contagious. Neither are car accidents. Having said that, we do have laws that restrict your freedoms with regarding to driving an automobile. It is illegal to drink and drive. You are required to wear a seatbelt. And I'm not sure how "getting rid of cars" or "getting rid of alcohol" is at all analogous to vaccines.
The number of influenza deaths in the U.S. varies every year, but it is often nowhere near 38,000. But going with your number, how is 38,000 comparable with 615,000? I thought people were finally done comparing COVID with the flu, but here we are.
I have yet to hear an anti-vaxxer articulate a legitimate reason why they refuse to get vaccinated. "You can still have a breakthrough infection even if you're vaccinated!" Yes, but the chances are miniscule, and more importantly, 96% of current COVID hospitalizations and deaths are unvaccinated people. What more information do they need? The truth is that they are listening to Tucker Carlson and podcasters instead of doctors. And by the way, all the Fox News hosts, including Tucker, are vaccinated. They are manipulating their viewers because it benefits the GOP and their ratings to incite culture wars over what should be consensus issues. Proof of vaccination is not a novel concept. We've been having to prove vaccinations to go to public school since I was a kid.
If you genuinely believe that you are entitled to unrestricted freedom to do whatever you want during a global public health crisis involving a contagious virus, you should check out Jacobson v. Commonwealth of Massachusetts. It's a U.S. Supreme Court case addressing whether a smallpox vaccine mandate impermissibly infringed upon Mr. Jacobson's constitutionally protected liberty rights. Like you, Mr. Jacobson believed that he could not be forced to get a vaccine because, this is 'Mericuh. The Court disagreed, holding that a state can enact reasonable (not arbitrary) regulations if they find they are necessary to protect public health and safety:
"But the liberty secured by the Constitution of the United States to every person within its jurisdiction does not import an absolute right in each person to be, at all times and in all circumstances, wholly freed from restraint. There are manifold restraints to which every person is necessarily subject for the common good. On any other basis organized society could not exist with safety to its members. Society based on the rule that each one is a law unto himself would soon be confronted with disorder and anarchy. Real liberty for all could not exist under the operation of a principle which recognizes the right of each individual person to use his own, whether in respect of his person or his property, regardless of the injury that may be done to others.'"
"Even liberty itself, the greatest of all rights, is not unrestricted license to act according to one's own will. It is only freedom from restraint under conditions essential to the equal enjoyment of the same right by others. It is, then, liberty regulated by law."
We're not even to the point of mandatory vaccinations -- except for private employers who have the right to require them as a condition of employment. Other than that we're still trying to appeal to people's common sense and decency. But clearly that isn't working in this state.
How do you figure?
Beyond the original PEG is ~0.5%, and ~0.1% are serious, but that's typical of any vaccine that uses PEG ...
Enlarged hearts requiring multi-week hospitalization is 0.02-0.03% for men under 30 with direct mRNA.
Various clots are ~0.01% for women under 30 with Adenovirus vector mRNA.
But yes, most of the issues are for younger people, not older.
And these are just the short-term complications.
But only on public roads! People forget that!
That's why arresting someone on their own property is usually thrown out of court, whether we're talking driving or handling a firearm ... on their own property. They would actually have to endanger someone other than themselves and, again, off of their property.
It's very difficult to convict someone for doing something in their own home on their own property. It raises the bar significantly! To think otherwise is literally the #1 thing we Libertarians take issue with. The government should never be inside your home, and it's why our freedoms are eroding.
But DUIs are becoming regulatory landmines to the point they are worse crimes than actually doing something intentionally. So DUI is becoming the best examples of government overreach with utter lack of logic. Very poor example because I can tear down how DUI has become special interest, and are actually getting worse.
Another poor example! That's 100% special interest ... insurance companies!
We also design airbags to work without a seat belt, which makes things worse!
Consumers, not government, market, not government, knows better!
This is my #1 pet peeve, we have such special interest to the point of worse environmentalism, worse healthcare, worse roads, worse safety, etc... Cars in the US actually have massive stupidity in their design! Why? Government.
Seriously, NOT a good example! Do NOT use it! Please STFU if you cannot because you ALIENATE EXPERTS. That's literally it these days, the US Media and the mob literally ALIENATE EXPERTS.
Again, poor use of logic. The argument is whether the government has the power to regulate your property and what you do with it, when they have shown they are passing laws that have nothing to do with stopping crime and preventing others from being hurt, but serving special interest.
You're literally starting to use examples that showcase what is wrong with government!
Influenza Virus (IV) been 50-100,000 many years.
Pneumonia has also been much, much higher too!
In 2018 IV was down because the C strains were most common, not the B strains which will more.
And IV A strains do kill far more ... and they have killed more than SARS-CoV-2!
IV kills far more kids than coronaviruses (CoV) too.
This goes to the whole theory of why SARS-CoV-2 is the new OC43-CoV.
But IV-A kills far more than Coronaviruses, including SARS-CoV, MERS-CoV and now SARS-CoV-2.
You don't get to start playing games and say, "Oh, I mean 'regular' flu."
But in any case, it still doesn't kill or maime kids ... like IV-A does.
I swear people literally don't know how to maintain consistency.
And I've yet to hear a pro-vaxxer admit that their spewing misinformation is why there are skeptics, even people who aren't anti-vax, wondering why the pro-vaxxers are utterly ignorant of the details and history.
Honestly, if 90% of you would stop pulling this sh-- out of your rectum, and be honest, transparent and forward, then the skeptics wouldn't have anything to fall back on. But because you spew misinformation, you cause this! It's easy to find!
And then you start using government over-reach with special interest as examples! Geez, you might as well say, "You don't have a choice ... comrade!" Stop with the DUI and seatbelts argument! That's literally exactly what's wrong!
Stop! Stop! Stop giving them ammo!
Not they are not! STOP BEING A 3RD GRADER! If you cannot, please, STFU! You look massively ignorant spreading misinformation!
infection != diseased != hospitalized
Rates of infection aren't much less for mRNA vaccinated.
Rates of diseased, especially seriously diseased to the point of hospitalization, are.
Either educate yourself or, if you cannot, Shut The F--- Up!
I'm so tired of things being stated by pro-vaxxers being DEAD WRONG!
You are literally giving the anti-vaxxers so much ammunition!
Either get it right, or STFU because YOU are THE PROBLEM!
Seriously guys ... either get your facts straight or keep CAUSING MORE SKEPTICS!
And stop using DUI and seatbelts ... that chaps a lot of asses because they are about special interest.
It's clear this is becoming an echo chamber of bullshit to the Nth degree. And people like shooting the messenger who is trying to point out that you, the 90% that keep echoing, ARE THE MISINFORMATION!
I'm done. It's amazing how all the facts are out there, and people keep spewing total bullshit.
Do NOT tag me on any more vaccine/virus stuff, and I will NOT respond any more. It's clear people just like to repeat the same, false narratives and give ammunition to skeptics.
Again, I'm done. Don't tag me and I won't respond. It's as simple as that.
Each and everyone gets 1 further reminder from me if they respond/tag. It'll be just this, "Don't respond/tag me, otherwise, I will respond. If you don't, then you won't hear from me again."
I'm done. It's amazing how all the facts are out there, and people keep spewing total bullshit.
Do NOT tag me on any more vaccine/virus stuff, and I will NOT respond any more. It's clear people just like to repeat the same, false narratives and give ammunition to skeptics.
Again, I'm done. Don't tag me and I won't respond. It's as simple as that.
Each and everyone gets 1 further reminder from me if they respond/tag. It'll be just this, "Don't respond/tag me, otherwise, I will respond. If you don't, then you won't hear from me again."
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To me this is easy. I HAD Covid symptoms for 35 days It took me 45 days to finally get stronger..Enough to be able towalk. I took the vaccine 4 months after I was sick.The Pfizer vaccine and only got sick for 2 days. Next dose was same. I WAS sick for a few days but I was fine after 2 days. I Lost NY Grandma Uncle and 4 cousins to Covid. My mother was sick in hospital for 10 days and received blood Transplant and medication which saved her. MY dad was also infected but his symptoms lasted only a few days...My brother was also infected his symptoms lasted a few days only. .We all got vaccinated. AFTER THAT. I will get booster shot as soon as it is available. DON'T GIVE ME THAT SHIT THAT THE VACCINE DOSEN'T WORK ..I lost so many people and to have Idiots say the vaccine DOSEN'T work makes me so Mad. I DON'T WANT OTHERS DYING. ..How many Idiots will die because of their Stupid Beliefs. GOD HELP SOME OF U.. This is not a game
Murica. all of the above.
I’ve had a non stop deep chest cough. Since the jabs. Hmmmmm.
I’m an educated chemist kind of guy. My take. Is. Too early to tell. But
I’ve had a non stop deep chest cough. Since the jabs. Hmmmmm.
I’m an educated chemist kind of guy. My take. Is. Too early to tell. But
Look pandoras box is open. This thing spreads to animals and will mutate indefinitely. We did our time to flatten the curve. Now they want to keep power and force those that would resit into poverty/dependence. We need to be living not cowering waiting on our 30th booster shot. Thinking that will magically let the government release power.
Is it not someones personal choice? Why should you choose medical procedures for anyone else? Would you want you neighbor/employer/ super market manager to choose your medical procedures? No you just want to choose someone elses. In this case. But this is exactly what you are condoning.
This is about forcing people to do something they dont want. Our government is going all in on show your papers. The sad thing is so many are okay to live in a show your papers world. Just not to vote, so many are too dumb to get s ID card.
I guess we can just have camps where those who dont want the jab can be relocated. You would be okay with that right?
The whole problem with any Covid information is its all been turned into propaganda. BLM riots and positive immigrants dont spread it but any biker rally/ baseball game does. It is airborne virus, it will spread at all of those events, not just the ones you dont like. But to those in power its a political tool to suppress your opponents!
Try this turn off the TV and go out in public and talk to people you dont know. Try a few different neighborhoods. See how you think after getting some new perspectives.
In America we have the right to choose. We should all be supporting eachother and our rights. You never know when it will be you that dont want something and everyone else is forcing you to obey.
Yep...go live your life...way too much fear mongering. And everyone who hasn't been infected and can get vaccinated should with an mRNA vaccine because it mimics the antibody protection of the previously infected. But most important, it's time we realize that we must get healthier and strengthen our immune systems. It isn't enough to just have the antibodies since variants will continue to emerge and this won't be the last pandemic (it obviously can be weaponized). We all have a role to play. If America has learned anything, it's that we all have a larger role to play in protecting ourselves.
Flatten the curve meant not to have hospitals at capacity and stopping surgical procedures because of having to care for Covid patients. I agree back in June, the curve was flatten go out and about, everyone did. In August that is not the case. Hospitals are exhausted right now.
Elective surgeries is what makes hospitals money, longer those are paused the longer hospitals will have to cut budgets.
We should listen to Hospital CEO's (not speculation). Here's what they said in the conference call on Weds...
Leaders of some of Florida's largest health care systems told Gov. Ron DeSantis on Wednesday that, despite a sharp increase in COVID-19 cases, their hospitals are not overwhelmed and remain safe for staff and patients.
Orlando Health CEO David Strong told DeSantis that COVID-19 cases may be plateauing at his health centers.
He said that, despite the fact that pandemic cases are peaking, people should not postpone health screenings or needed medical procedures as they did last year.
"That creates significant issues and, unfortunately, many people are paying for that today," Strong said. "So we would just encourage people to not delay care but to seek the care you need."
pretty gross that one of our fans is using to oldest dog whistle trick in the book which I won’t repeat. and that has been proven false by politifact and other fact checkers . People have a UCF degree but let people like Glenn Beck reprogram them
FFS it effects more than yourself. Advent Health is not doing elective procedures at this point because their hospital system is overwhelmed. Overwhelmed with people expressing their freedom and refusing a safe free vaccine. We have dungeon members in their 30s dying or hospitalized and at the same time other folks on here are still repeating the same refrain they have been for the past year and a half. It’s not the government out to get you.
FYI, none of my information is speculation. Elective procedures is paused for many of Florida's hospitals, that is a fact and those procedures make up the largest part of a hospital/system revenue.
This thread is spiraling out of control. Any updates on planned capacities for the Boise State game? Any new mandates?
Sorry Gwoz but I believe the Hospital CEO's and specifically Orlando Health's CEO David Strong. But you're free to believe whatever you choose.
Do you believe AdventHealth when they say that elective procedures are now being deferred?
AdventHealth Central Florida will move to ‘black’ status and will defer non-emergency surgeries
COVID-19 cases at hospitals in AdventHealth’s Central Florida Division continue to increase at a rapid pace.
Look at the date of your article and don't respond to me with almost 2 week old reports. This is fluid in case you don't know it....Do you believe AdventHealth when they say that elective procedures are now being deferred?
AdventHealth Central Florida will move to ‘black’ status and will defer non-emergency surgeries
COVID-19 cases at hospitals in AdventHealth’s Central Florida Division continue to increase at a rapid pace.www.adventhealth.com
It’s the advent health web site. That is their current status. Implemented a little over a week ago. You say “CEOs” are telling people they shouldn’t postpone procedures like they did last year while at the same time medical providers are postponing procedures to deal with the rise in cases. It makes little sense to me. FYI there are more hospitalizations now than there were when this guidance was put into place.
This is the FL Roundtable with Hospital CEO's (plural not just Advent Health) and it was held just a few days ago... https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http...Qht6_GdjEzhbvOWAg2VsuusfbxrqW2_YBhZfopisQ-1j8
So it of your belief that no hospitals is halting elective procedures in the state of Florida because of a roundtable conversation? All the hospitals that put out press releases and notified patients that they will not be performing elective procedures are invalid or have expired, yet no press release that they have resumed elective procedures.
One could call a hospital and get the answer pretty easily. There is also no shortage of people that work for hospital systems that are notified of these changes.
This is getting way off topic, but your whole argument is based on what you heard in a meeting. Not the actual policy made by the hospital. I can't speak to the response by a CEO, but there is no ambiguity to a hospital pausing procedures. I can call my hospital and they will tell me a procedure is no longer schedule.
If you have a valid reason to start calling (i.e. a procedure) please do...otherwise it's clear that you used Advent Health's policy as an example and I've sent you examples of others that, per their CEO's, don't have the same policy. And I'm using CEO's, not info from the Holiday Inn last night. Shouldn't be difficult for you to understand.
I work in medical sales with my clients being surgeons and I can tell you absolutely Advent Health is in code black which means all elective surgeries are suspended indefinitely. I was also told that if the current trend continues Orlando Health will follow.
And it's reason to believe actual notifications from hospital systems supercede statements made on a call.
Coronavirus
As the novel coronavirus, also known as COVID-19, continues to spread, BayCare is determined to do its part to keep the local community informed about preparation, protection and potential impact. Find news updates about coronavirus, telemedicine information and how to stay informed.
baycare.org
BayCare expands pause in elective procedures to Pinellas, Pasco counties
BayCare announced Thursday it is pausing elective surgical procedures that require an overnight stay at most of its hospitals in Pinellas in Pasco counties.
www.wfla.com
This entire conversation is just as retarded now. As it was a year ago. So stupid.
the stupid burns. But the stupid won’t go away for another year. Because of the stupid people.
owwwwwww. I got a virus.
the stupid burns. But the stupid won’t go away for another year. Because of the stupid people.
owwwwwww. I got a virus.
Right. They said if it’s a medical emergency then go to the emergency room. Wait times are now around 10-12 hours. Any non emergency procedure is postponed until the Covid surge dies down.
I am plugged in to the hospital labs across the region.
the Stupid. It still burns. Still. A year later.
Bring me your database. It’s shit. Still.
gonna have to go back to the globull. Warming crap shortly when this horse shot crisis is done playing out.
the Stupid. It still burns. Still. A year later.
Bring me your database. It’s shit. Still.
gonna have to go back to the globull. Warming crap shortly when this horse shot crisis is done playing out.
Reading your last couple of posts, COVID is not your concern but it appears you are having a stroke. I hope you are ok and sought medical help.
I’m a RN at a major health system in Orlando and I can tell you without a doubt this is the worst things have been since the start of the pandemic.
We have been code black (at capacity) system wide since last week. During the peak of the first surge we had two ICUs and 2 PCUs designated for covid patients. Right now nearly all of the floors in my tower alone have covid patients on them. My unit has been downsized and moved to another floor in the hospital to make room for more covid patients. Patient ratios in some ICUs have moved from 1:1 or 2:1 to 3:1. And up to 5 or 6:1 for PCUs. Just a few months ago we had just one ICU and PCU for covid patients. Us nurses are burning out. Many have quit to do travel nursing where you can at least make double the money while being miserable. They’re so desperate for RNs they’re offering ridiculous money to pick up just one extra shift.
The fact is we’re tired of this crap, and to hear people doubt this is a real thing is just a gut punch. We’re seeing a lot of younger people even in they’re 20’s and 30s coming in. According to what we’ve heard 97% of them have not been vaccinated and those that have been vaccinated either got Johnson and Johnson or are immune compromised. People just don’t understand that it’s not just the death toll. It’s the fact that these people are taking beds away from people that need them.
We have been code black (at capacity) system wide since last week. During the peak of the first surge we had two ICUs and 2 PCUs designated for covid patients. Right now nearly all of the floors in my tower alone have covid patients on them. My unit has been downsized and moved to another floor in the hospital to make room for more covid patients. Patient ratios in some ICUs have moved from 1:1 or 2:1 to 3:1. And up to 5 or 6:1 for PCUs. Just a few months ago we had just one ICU and PCU for covid patients. Us nurses are burning out. Many have quit to do travel nursing where you can at least make double the money while being miserable. They’re so desperate for RNs they’re offering ridiculous money to pick up just one extra shift.
The fact is we’re tired of this crap, and to hear people doubt this is a real thing is just a gut punch. We’re seeing a lot of younger people even in they’re 20’s and 30s coming in. According to what we’ve heard 97% of them have not been vaccinated and those that have been vaccinated either got Johnson and Johnson or are immune compromised. People just don’t understand that it’s not just the death toll. It’s the fact that these people are taking beds away from people that need them.
It’s national news.
www.wsj.com
As Delta Variant Spreads, Florida Hospitals Race to Find Open Beds
The Delta variant has pushed Florida Covid-19 hospitalizations to records and AdventHealth’s Orlando-area hospitals beyond capacity, leaving patients to wait in emergency rooms in a potentially dangerous limbo.
www.wsj.com
I had J&J and had Covid. Just a little sick. Is that one supposed to not be as effective?
70 something % effective vs 90s % for Pfizer and Moderna but those samples mostly used the Alpha variant as samples , probably a few % lower for the Delta one
if reality bothers you just ignore the thread ….if posters like glaciers don’t get banned for all the racist drivel he posts in the Water Cooler a thread about the Covid situation in Orlando and Florida definitely shouldn’t
Getting vaccinated is about keeping you out of the hospital and alive. If that 95% reassurance isn’t appealing, nothing anyone will write on a message board will change their mind.
A dear friend of mine refused the shot and just spent the last three weeks fighting the virus along with his entire immediate family. Praying they don’t end up with long term health complications as a result of what could have likely been prevented. What started as a mild illness knocked them out for weeks. If going unvaccinated is your choice, I wish you luck (you’ll need it).
ps. Getting tested is free at sites around the country with or without insurance. If you’re sick (cough, fever, etc) , do the rest of us a favor and at least do that.
A dear friend of mine refused the shot and just spent the last three weeks fighting the virus along with his entire immediate family. Praying they don’t end up with long term health complications as a result of what could have likely been prevented. What started as a mild illness knocked them out for weeks. If going unvaccinated is your choice, I wish you luck (you’ll need it).
ps. Getting tested is free at sites around the country with or without insurance. If you’re sick (cough, fever, etc) , do the rest of us a favor and at least do that.
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