Shooting at High School in Santa Fe, TX

[Crazyhole]

I honestly don't know if you are being intentional about your incredible bias right now. Yes there are shotguns and revolvers all over Europe. There are literally orders of magnitude LESS shotguns and revolvers all over Europe compared the US. Are you capable of understanding how this relates to fewer mass shootings?



Another incredibly easy point to refute. Europe is significantly less religious and more liberal than the US. According to your incredibly backwards theory, Europe should have more shootings.

You have a seriously problem in coming up with your hypothesis and disregarding all facts.

And the middle East is exponentially more religious than Europe or the United States. Violence there abounds, so you make a reasonable point. I don't like it, but you are correct. My sensibilities tell me that Christianity is anti-violent in nature so that's probably the natural counterpoint. At the same time, communist Russia and socialist China are decidedly anti-religion and they have killed upwards of 100 million people. Seems to me that religion or the lack thereof may not be the common factor.

 

[sk8knight]

What do you think the "sickness" is then?

You harp on and on about how morally bankrupt and sick Europe is all the time.

I think part of it is America's culture on violence. Violence is no big deal here, while in Europe violence is a big no-no. Instead, the USA chooses to focus it's attention on nudity and other "morally bankrupt" values.

If anything, our sickness is our inability and fear to do anything about guns and violence. Your post pretty much says what all of us "libs" have been trying to say. The very vast majority do not want to take away your guns, instead we want people to be smarter and more secure about actually having them.

It's not "guns and violence." It's violence where guns are one expression. They are also the only sure equalizer of force between someone set to do violence upon another. The only way a 77-year-old woman can defend herself against a 21-year-old man intent to do violence.

Why are you all so intent on removing the ability for that woman to equalize force rather than addressing the propensity for violence?

 

[sk8knight]

And the middle East is exponentially more religious than Europe or the United States. Violence there abounds, so you make a reasonable point. I don't like it, but you are correct. My sensibilities tell me that Christianity is anti-violent in nature so that's probably the natural counterpoint. At the same time, communist Russia and socialist China are decidedly anti-religion and they have killed upwards of 100 million people. Seems to me that religion or the lack thereof may not be the common factor.

Systemic governmental ethnic and religious cleansings are not the same as random violence in a culture.

 

[UCFWayne]

I don’t know the shooters name and don’t want to. If you agree, anytime you see a post with their name or face from news organizations post #NoNotoriety with one of the victim's names. We make these sick people known worldwide for their horrifying acts, let’s stop that.

— David Hogg (@davidhogg111) May 20, 2018

even a broken clock can be right twice a day

 

[bqknight]

It's not "guns and violence." It's violence where guns are one expression. They are also the only sure equalizer of force between someone set to do violence upon another. The only way a 77-year-old woman can defend herself against a 21-year-old man intent to do violence.

Why are you all so intent on removing the ability for that woman to equalize force rather than addressing the propensity for violence?

I'm not. I have said WAY too many times to count now that I am most definitely not in favor of taking away guns.

Why is it that any time someone even mentions ANY change to the way we view guns they instantly go there? Maybe that's part of the problem. Hmmm...

 

[sk8knight]

I'm not. I have said WAY too many times to count now that I am most definitely not in favor of taking away guns.

Why is it that any time someone even mentions ANY change to the way we view guns they instantly go there? Maybe that's part of the problem. Hmmm...

Ok, so you specifically should not have been considered in "you all." I was intending this to the others that are trying to label anyone who owns a gun or anyone who advocates that others have a gun as crazy.

Because so many have argued that they want mandatory buybacks, which are confiscations. That any gun control is a step to removing all guns. That the second amendment should be removed. There are plenty of examples of democrat leadership expressing that they want to take guns away from law-abiding citizens. And on this board as well. So, it's a sensitive topic.

 

[NinjaKnight]

Seems to me that religion or the lack thereof may not be the common factor.

bingo. That and "liberal ideology" that 85 also claimed was part of the problem is 100% idiocy.

 

[Crazyhole]

Systemic governmental ethnic and religious cleansings are not the same as random violence in a culture.

No, but the measurable consequence is the same. A dead body is a dead body regardless of intent. It happens in both religious and non-religious people, so it seems like we should be able to dismiss the correlation.

I'm an evangelical Christian and have no desire to kill anybody. I know quite a few atheists that are the same way. If I was an atheist I can't imagine I would advocate for death, so I can't in good concience say that my faith dictates my belief in the sanctity of life is predicated on my faith. I'm glad to say that my faith coincides with my belief that I shouldn't kill but i can't act like the 2 are mutual attributes.

 

[NinjaKnight]

No, but the measurable consequence is the same. A dead body is a dead body regardless of intent. It happens in both religious and non-religious people, so it seems like we should be able to dismiss the correlation.

I'm an evangelical Christian and have no desire to kill anybody. I know quite a few atheists that are the same way. If I was an atheist I can't imagine I would advocate for death, so I can't in good concience say that my faith dictates my belief in the sanctity of life is predicated on my faith. I'm glad to say that my faith coincides with my belief that I shouldn't kill but i can't act like the 2 are mutual attributes.

Yep, if you were to say as a Christian the only thing that is keeping you from killing someone is your Faith/religion...that is incredibly terrifying thought.

 

[UCFKnight85]

1. I don't think it has anything to do with being "macho". I think it has to do with violence. No hidden meaning behind that violence. Just violence, plain and simple.

2. Are these same corruptions you think are being pumped into society not being done in Europe as well? You've said multiple times that Europe is more morally corrupt than the USA. You said the USA is uniquely sick. How so? What liberal sickness is being pumped up here but not there?

3. I'm not sure where I was getting defensive. I honestly wanted to know your thoughts about the above because it's not all connecting to me. I'm 99.9% sure there is not 1 root cause, it's too complex of an issue for there to be a simple solution.

4. Yes - of course Europe has the same movies and video games as us - however - they also have stricter rules and tighter guidelines on violence.

5. Yes - we will obviously not agree on this - didn't expect us to. lol.

I've been to Europe probably 25 times in the past 8 years. It's a lovely place and I've enjoyed traveling around Europe. I have no issues really with the people, I just take issue with their way of looking at economics, personal wealth, and the general drive for achievement and "wanting more". It works for them and they're content which is great, but I look at the economic stalemate over there, compared to the economic innovation we drive, and prefer our system. That's what I meant; not that Europeans are by default bad people.

 

[Crazyhole]

Yep, if you were to say as a Christian the only thing that is keeping you from killing someone is your Faith/religion...that is incredibly terrifying thought.

It's easy to correlate faith with respect for life as a Christian and I'm glad it is. I'm glad that I don't have to justify any duality between the 2. That's probably one of the biggest problems that a lot of Christians have with understanding a faith like Islam or an economic system like socialism; they see the easy correlation between their natural ethics and their morals and don't understand how the Qur'an or how Marxism can possibly be the same, understandably so. It's easy to dismiss the transgressions of Christianity because the only notable examples of it are centuries old, while the latter 2 have examples that are fresh in our minds.

I'm not open minded towards Islam or Marxism, but it isn't pointedly because of the effects they have had on human life over history. I AM open minded in the aspect that I believe that a muslim or Marxist can be a good person.

 

[sk8knight]

Did you double post that hoping Ninja will “like” it twice?

 

[Crazyhole]

Did you double post that hoping Ninja will “like” it twice?

Unreliable cell service, but well played.

 

[UCFBS]

And the middle East is exponentially more religious than Europe or the United States. Violence there abounds, so you make a reasonable point.

The ultimate hypocrisy of many Muslims is that Mohammad didn't want to be idolized, so there wouldn't be the threats and violence in his name, like Christianity and others had rallied using theirs.

And what do they do any time someone draws a character of Mohammad? Far worse in far more numbers than any Christians.

I don't like it, but you are correct. My sensibilities tell me that Christianity is anti-violent in nature so that's probably the natural counterpoint. At the same time, communist Russia and socialist China are decidedly anti-religion and they have killed upwards of 100 million people. Seems to me that religion or the lack thereof may not be the common factor.

'Blind faith' and 'ignorance' is always the culprit. Doesn't require religion at all.

As I always call it, "The Church of Popular Environmentalism." It doesn't help the Progressive 'cause' when they label anyone who doesn't 100% agree with them as 'Climate Deniers.'

My go-to question of Progressives as of late is this, "Why does science say the Earth is over 4 billion years old? What is the current theory?" They immediately think I'm a right-winger, when I'm merely asking what is the hypothesis.

That's the thing. People 'believe' things without any scientific background. My favorite guy right now is the flat Earther who refuses to believe others, and is building his rocket. At least he's trying to find out for himself, not rely on others.

 

[Crazyhole]

The ultimate hypocrisy of many Muslims is that Mohammad didn't want to be idolized, so there wouldn't be the threats and violence in his name, like Christianity and others had rallied using theirs.

And what do they do any time someone draws a character of Mohammad? Far worse in far more numbers than any Christians.

'Blind faith' and 'ignorance' is always the culprit. Doesn't require religion at all.

As I always call it, "The Church of Popular Environmentalism." It doesn't help the Progressive 'cause' when they label anyone who doesn't 100% agree with them as 'Climate Deniers.'

My go-to question of Progressives as of late is this, "Why does science say the Earth is over 4 billion years old? What is the current theory?" They immediately think I'm a right-winger, when I'm merely asking what is the hypothesis.

That's the thing. People 'believe' things without any scientific background. My favorite guy right now is the flat Earther who refuses to believe others, and is building his rocket. At least he's trying to find out for himself, not rely on others.

Agreed. It all comes down to indoctrination vs honest questioning and personal discovery. That's the biggest problem I have with people on the left and an increasing number of people on the right: the just defer to blind faith and tow the company line. You and I disagree on climate change, but I don't thinks it's because we are just accepting what we are told. No shame in that and it makes for a better discussion.