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Trump Whistleblower and 'Promises' to Ukraine

I didn't say it had to be simultaneous to be a problem. Simply correcting one of his points where he is clearly trying to make it out to be simultaneous and all connected, which simply isn't the case. Facts matter.
Fair enough. I don't think all the facts are out on either of the Ukraine interactions. Such as, it is now coming out that the complaint from the whistleblower asserts that the whistleblower did not have firsthand knowledge of the conversation between Trump and Zelensky. If that's the case, then the whistleblower did not listen in on the conversation and all the rest is suspect as well. IOW, we don't have any facts about Trump and we have a Biden embellished story on Biden.
 
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I didn't say it had to be simultaneous to be a problem. Simply correcting one of his points where he is clearly trying to make it out to be simultaneous and all connected, which simply isn't the case. Facts matter.
Fair enough. I don't think all the facts are out on either of the Ukraine interactions. Such as, it is now coming out that the complaint from the whistleblower asserts that the whistleblower did not have firsthand knowledge of the conversation between Trump and Zelensky. If that's the case, then the whistleblower did not listen in on the conversation and all the rest is suspect as well. IOW, we don't have any facts about Trump and we have a Biden embellished story on Biden.
You left out Trumps own admissions
 
Why would Trump think that Ukraine has information on Biden that is useful if everything was on the up and up? He's the most powerful man in the world with access to more Intel than any person in history.


He didn't ask Uganda to dig up dirt on Biden, he (allegedly) asked a country that we already know has a weird and possibly treasonous relationship with Biden to give up the goods. If it's so cut and dried that Biden did nothing wrong then why in the hell would Trump do this? Why not ask Monaco or Japan?
 
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Why would Trump think that Ukraine has information on Biden that is useful if everything was on the up and up? He's the most powerful man in the world with access to more Intel than any person in history.


He didn't ask Uganda to dig up dirt on Biden, he (allegedly) asked a country that we already know has a weird and possibly treasonous relationship with Biden to give up the goods. If it's so cut and dried that Biden did nothing wrong then why in the hell would Trump do this? Why not ask Monaco or Japan?
Why would someone try to rationalize Trump?
 
You guys don't have all your facts straight on this. The investigation was already completed by the time Joe Biden asked that the prosecutor be removed.
Actually, that doesn't matter. Democrats have been saying that about Trump on so many things as well -- from Cambridge to Cohen. This is the hypocrisy that is alienating moderates and classic liberals.

Secondly, he wasn't investigating his son.
And that doesn't matter either. The fact of the matter is that there were questionable realities and the prospect had been visited. It makes for a conflict-of-interest. Again, hypocrisy is rearing it's ugly head.

He was investigating a company his son happened to be a part of, but you guys are acting like his son was under criminal investigation or something, which simply wasn't the case.
And you don't, let alone the US Media and Democrats do not, stretch the facts even farther than this on Trump? Seriously?! That's your 'explanation'?

Again ... the 2nd round of funding to Solyndra was my 'wake up call' on how bad the Democratic party has become when it comes to these realities, specially in California, as well as Delaware (for those that know anything about corporate law).

This whole episode just showcases how unobjective the US Media has become. If Trump pulled what Biden did, it'd be all over for Trump.
 
Actually, that doesn't matter. Democrats have been saying that about Trump on so many things as well -- from Cambridge to Cohen. This is the hypocrisy that is alienating moderates and classic liberals.

And that doesn't matter either. The fact of the matter is that there were questionable realities and the prospect had been visited. It makes for a conflict-of-interest. Again, hypocrisy is rearing it's ugly head.

And you don't, let alone the US Media and Democrats do not, stretch the facts even farther than this on Trump? Seriously?! That's your 'explanation'?

Again ... the 2nd round of funding to Solyndra was my 'wake up call' on how bad the Democratic party has become when it comes to these realities, specially in California, as well as Delaware (for those that know anything about corporate law).

This whole episode just showcases how unobjective the US Media has become. If Trump pulled what Biden did, it'd be all over for Trump.

Yes, I know facts don't matter to some people.
 
You guys don't have all your facts straight on this. The investigation was already completed by the time Joe Biden asked that the prosecutor be removed.
Actually, that doesn't matter. Democrats have been saying that about Trump on so many things as well -- from Cambridge to Cohen. This is the hypocrisy that is alienating moderates and classic liberals.

Secondly, he wasn't investigating his son.
And that doesn't matter either. The fact of the matter is that there were questionable realities and the prospect had been visited. It makes for a conflict-of-interest. Again, hypocrisy is rearing it's ugly head.

He was investigating a company his son happened to be a part of, but you guys are acting like his son was under criminal investigation or something, which simply wasn't the case.
And you don't, let alone the US Media and Democrats do not, stretch the facts even farther than this on Trump? Seriously?! That's your 'explanation'?

Again ... the 2nd round of funding to Solyndra was my 'wake up call' on how bad the Democratic party has become when it comes to these realities, specially in California, as well as Delaware (for those that know anything about corporate law).

This whole episode just showcases how unobjective the US Media has become. If Trump pulled what Biden did, it'd be all over for Trump.
You requesting objectivity from the media, right? Do you have any requests for the truth from Trump?
 
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It's pretty much a foregone conclusion that Trump is going to get his butt impeached for his latest stupidity.
  1. He has admitted he mentioned investigating Biden's son during his phone call with the new Ukrainian leader. (Once released, the transcript will show he brought up Biden's son 8 times during the course of their discussions.)
  2. For some strange reason Trump told his Chief-of-Staff to HOLD UP $391 million in military aid to Ukraine a week before his phone call with their new President.
  3. Trump claims he said nothing wrong but refuses to release the tape to Congress because "it would establish a bad precedent." However, he added that "if" he had pushed for Ukraine to follow up on his concerns with corruption, there wouldn't have been anything wrong with it.
Okay, Red Hats, please spin how we're all SUPPOSED to look at this idiocy. :)
 
we shall see if anything comes from this
If anything comes of it??? Something will definitely come of it. But given our Senate, he's likely to survive this stupid play too.

But GOOD GOD, how many of examples do you folks need before you come to your senses and realize this senile Blowhard believes he can behave like all the tin horn dictators he admires?
 
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If anything comes of it??? Something will definitely come of it. But given our Senate, he's likely to survive this stupid play too.

But GOOD GOD, how many of examples do you folks need before you come to your senses and realize this senile Blowhard believes he can behave like all the tin horn dictators he admires?

Maybe we're just admiring raging hypocrites like you that collectively give 2 shits about Biden wielding his power as VP to get his son off the hook and use US aid money as leverage to do it?

Go ahead and let the idiots in the House impeach him. The country collectively gives 2 shits about conversations with Ukraine and they'll just come off as the hyper partisan left wing zealots that they are.
 
Things have gotten so bad that Trump just admitted he withheld the aid money to Ukraine, but claims it was for "other reasons".

So the habitual liar, who can't even tell the truth about the weather at his inauguration, or crowd sizes at his rallies, thinks we are so fuking stupid that we will believe him on this. And in the case of @UCFKnight85 he might actually be correct.

Impeach this treasonous sack of shit yesterday.
 
Maybe we're just admiring raging hypocrites like you that collectively give 2 shits about Biden wielding his power as VP to get his son off the hook and use US aid money as leverage to do it?
LOL A made-up abuse-of-power to excuse the real thing. 85 is a comedic gift that keeps on giving.

The country collectively gives 2 shits about conversations with Ukraine and they'll just come off as the hyper partisan left wing zealots that they are.
The country doesn't give 2 shits about The Constitution??!?

Jeez, I could have sworn you were apoplectic about Obama's 'abuses of power' but Trump uses his position and the resources of the USA to intimidate the new leader of the Ukraine, and suddenly nobody "gives 2 shits???"

But don't listen to me 'cause I'm just a "raging hypocrite," right? :)
 
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LOL A made-up abuse-of-power to excuse the real thing. 85 is a comedic gift that keeps on giving.

The country doesn't give 2 shits about The Constitution??!?

Jeez, I could have sworn you were apoplectic about Obama's 'abuses of power' but Trump uses his position and the resources of the USA to intimidate the new leader of the Ukraine, and suddenly nobody "gives 2 shits???"

But don't listen to me 'cause I'm just a "raging hypocrite," right? :)
Are you saying Biden made up his abuse of power story? Because if he didn’t, then he confessed to exactly what you all are thinking that Trump did based upon some secondhand account turned into a whistleblower complaint.
 
Are you saying Biden made up his abuse of power story? Because if he didn’t, then he confessed to exactly what you all are thinking that Trump did based upon some secondhand account turned into a whistleblower complaint.

It isn't the same thing. Biden wanted the guy pushed out due to corruption. Other countries and organizations wanted him out as well. Trump, if true of course, was threatening to withhold aid to benefit his campaign. These are completely different situations.
 
It isn't the same thing. Biden wanted the guy pushed out due to corruption. Other countries and organizations wanted him out as well. Trump, if true of course, was threatening to withhold aid to benefit his campaign. These are completely different situations.

How does this need to be explained? Are you debating a 5 year old?
 
How does this need to be explained? Are you debating a 5 year old?

The thing is, even if they think Biden did something wrong (which based on what I have read that doesn't seem to be the case), it still doesn't let Trump off the hook. If he did what is being said, his actions are possibly impeachable, and whether Biden did anything or not doesn't change that. They are acting like if Biden was in the wrong, that somehow gives Trump a get out of jail free card.
 
The thing is, even if they think Biden did something wrong (which based on what I have read that doesn't seem to be the case), it still doesn't let Trump off the hook. If he did what is being said, his actions are possibly impeachable, and whether Biden did anything or not doesn't change that. They are acting like if Biden was in the wrong, that somehow gives Trump a get of jail free card.
No, we just want you to treat the situations the same. You want to impeach Trump but totally ignore that the same inappropriate leverage should disqualify Biden from the Presidency. Get them both or leave them both alone.
 
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It isn't the same thing. Biden wanted the guy pushed out due to corruption. Other countries and organizations wanted him out as well. Trump, if true of course, was threatening to withhold aid to benefit his campaign. These are completely different situations.
You think that is the case. But the guy had investigated Burisma, Hunter was working for Burisma, and that is a clear conflict of interest with Joe Biden. At the very least, he should’ve recused himself. Saying nothing about the fact that Hunter was hired by Burisma a month after Biden visits Kiev the first time. All of that stinks to high heaven.

You’re inclined to give Biden the benefit of the doubt. But work it both ways.
 
No, we just want you to treat the situations the same. You want to impeach Trump but totally ignore that the same inappropriate leverage should disqualify Biden from the Presidency. Get them both or leave them both alone.

But you haven't shown he has had inappropriate leverage. I went through this yesterday and pointed out to 85 and others how their information wasn't consistent with what actually happened.

And when you say get them both, you realize the Republicans are in charge of the justice department right? If they have information to go after Biden why have they not done it?
 
You think that is the case. But the guy had investigated Burisma, Hunter was working for Burisma, and that is a clear conflict of interest with Joe Biden. At the very least, he should’ve recused himself. Saying nothing about the fact that Hunter was hired by Burisma a month after Biden visits Kiev the first time. All of that stinks to high heaven.

You’re inclined to give Biden the benefit of the doubt. But work it both ways.

Ok, then tell the justice department to investigate him, that would be the legal and appropriate way to go.
 
They are acting like if Biden was in the wrong, that somehow gives Trump a get out of jail free card.
Think about it: If YOU felt compelled to defend Trump's shenanigans, what do you say for crying out loud???

The "Well Whadda 'Bout...?" defense is the only way to go. Frankly, making up a false equivalency is the only thing our Red Hat friends got.

….OH, that and their tired "TDS" comebacks. :)
 
But you haven't shown he has had inappropriate leverage. I went through this yesterday and pointed out to 85 and others how their information wasn't consistent with what actually happened.

And when you say get them both, you realize the Republicans are in charge of the justice department right? If they have information to go after Biden why have they not done it?
He flat out admitted to leveraging a billion dollars to force a firing. If that’s not inappropriate, then why the hell are you railing on about Trump?
 
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He flat out admitted to leveraging a billion dollars to force a firing. If that’s not inappropriate, then why the hell are you railing on about Trump?

Seriously dude? I just explained this to you. Wanting someone fired due to corruption is not the same thing as wanting someone fired to help your campaign. You have to see the difference in that?
 
Seriously dude? I just explained this to you. Wanting someone fired due to corruption is not the same thing as wanting someone fired to help your campaign. You have to see the difference in that?
You do realize that the Biden family dealings in Ukraine stink of corruption and asking Ukraine to investigate that corruption is what is happening, right? If asking to investigate corruption is ok, then you should be ok.
 
You do realize that the Biden family dealings in Ukraine stink of corruption and asking Ukraine to investigate that corruption is what is happening, right? If asking to investigate corruption is ok, then you should be ok.

Asking to investigate corruption is fine. Bribing someone to investigate a potential political opponent isn't. And you are smart enough to know that.
 
He flat out admitted to leveraging a billion dollars to force a firing. If that’s not inappropriate, then why the hell are you railing on about Trump?
Read the following response very carefully, sk8:
1) Our Government uses its money, influence, and military in an attempt to elicit particular responses from a foreign government. Such practices are OKAY and, in fact, are done all the time.
2) Having our President use the Government's money, influence, and/or military to elicit a particular governmental response in a crass attempt to hurt a political rival who is currently beating him in the polls is NOT OKAY.
3)
Using the power of the Presidency for PERSONAL GAIN (i.e., hurting a political rival, encouraging people to stay in your hotels, etc.) was frowned upon by our Founding Fathers to the extent that language guarding against such behaviors was written into the U.S. Constitution.
 
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You do realize that the Biden family dealings in Ukraine stink of corruption and asking Ukraine to investigate that corruption is what is happening, right? If asking to investigate corruption is ok, then you should be ok.

What exactly is the corruption it stinks of? Did a VP's son get a cushy job? Maybe. Is that corruption? Politicians (and other rich people's) sons and daughters often times get good jobs. Do you think Ivanka and Jared Kushner are remotely qualified for their positions? Of course not. So is that what you consider corruption? Or is there more to it? And if so what is it?
 
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Asking to investigate corruption is fine. Bribing someone to investigate a potential political opponent isn't. And you are smart enough to know that.
So again, Biden admitted to threatening to withhold money to force an action to investigate corruption. Given your own standard, can you admit that this is a problem?
 
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What exactly is the corruption it stinks of? Did a VP's son get a cushy job? Maybe. Is that corruption? Politicians (and other rich people's) sons and daughters often times get good jobs. Do you think Ivanka and Jared Kushner are remotely qualified for their positions? Of course not. So is that what you consider corruption? Or is there more to it? And if so what is it?
Using the power of your office to secure a job for someone that they are not remotely qualified for is unethical. Whoever is doing it.
 
So again, Biden admitted to threatening to withhold money to force an action to investigate corruption. Given your own standard, can you admit that this is a problem?

By that standard then anytime we issue sanctions or something in that regard it should be illegal. Sanctions are to pressure countries into a certain response after all.

Why isn't the DOJ investigating Biden then?
 
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