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when Derek Chauvin inevitably walks ...

Crazyhole said:
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Very similar statements and manner.


abcnews.go.com

Lawyer: Officer's knee to neck killed man during 2018 arrest

A civil rights lawyer is drawing direct comparisons to the death of George Floyd as he prepares to sue a Florida police department over the death of a white man
abcnews.go.com abcnews.go.com

Also, very similar circumstances.
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Same lawyer suing the city too. Already whitewashing the situation with the “what he needed was a helping hand.” National story has an edited video and not much information.

Of course, Coffman had meth, fentanyl, and morphine in his system. There are other similarities.

Here’s more of the story: https://www.news-journalonline.com/...tragedy-in-police-custody-our-view/112807008/
 
Crazyhole said:
Good summation of the trial witnesses from Friday.
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The medical examiner affirmed the medical/forensic “homicide” as well as the role the police restraint played in pushing Floyd over the edge, but the defense 'won' the day?

Oooooooooooooooooookay, if you guys say so. 🙄
 
DaShuckster said:
The medical examiner affirmed the medical/forensic “homicide” as well as the role the police restraint played in pushing Floyd over the edge, but the defense 'won' the day?

Oooooooooooooooooookay, if you guys say so. 🙄
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Yeah. They created a lot of doubt in what the cause of death could have been. Like the guy in the video said, they don't have to prove an alternative cause of death, they just show that there could be other possibilities. To that end, the defense has succeeded so far.
 
Crazyhole said:
Yeah. They created a lot of doubt in what the cause of death could have been. Like the guy in the video said, they don't have to prove an alternative cause of death, they just show that there could be other possibilities. To that end, the defense has succeeded so far.
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It was essentially this for the medical/forensic people who testified for the state:

Yup the dude had an Enlarged heart
Blockage of 75% and 90%
The cocktail of Fentanyl, meth, and dope in his system
Downed some painkillers as well
COVID

J/K, it was a homicide.
 
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This guy died with knee to the throat. Not from knee to the throat. Knee to the throat deaths pay more to the doctors.
 
Crazyhole said:
Yeah. They created a lot of doubt in what the cause of death could have been. Like the guy in the video said, they don't have to prove an alternative cause of death, they just show that there could be other possibilities. To that end, the defense has succeeded so far.
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I’ve given up on Shook. He doesn’t have anything but gaslighting and he can’t keep himself from doing it.

The prosecution couldn’t even find the time of death in their testimony. Dr. Tobin said that he died from traumatic brain injury when he kicked out his leg and then the ME said he died at the hospital. They’ve oscillated among theories of knee to the neck to general pressure from everyone to failure to get medical attention. All while glaringly and stubbornly ignoring fentanyl and heart disease as primary factors. It’s glaringly obvious that the state’s case is lacking.
 
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KnighttimeJoe said:
It was essentially this for the medical/forensic people who testified for the state:

Yup the dude had an Enlarged heart
Blockage of 75% and 90%
The cocktail of Fentanyl, meth, and dope in his system
Downed some painkillers as well
COVID

J/K, it was a homicide.
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Not exactly compelling testimony unless you binge watch MSNBC.
 
sk8knight said:
I’ve given up on Shook. He doesn’t have anything but gaslighting and he can’t keep himself from doing it.

The prosecution couldn’t even find the time of death in their testimony. Dr. Tobin said that he died from traumatic brain injury when he kicked out his leg and then the ME said he died at the hospital. They’ve oscillated among theories of knee to the neck to general pressure from everyone to failure to get medical attention. All while glaringly and stubbornly ignoring fentanyl and heart disease as primary factors. It’s glaringly obvious that the state’s case is lacking.
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Agreed. Shuckster doesn't seem to understand that the prosecution has to convince the jury that there is no possible way that a lethal dose of fentanyl, meth, an enlarged heart, and coronary artery disease could have contributed to his death. None of those potentially life ending circumstances had anything to do with this. It was just a knee to the back that left no bruising.
 
Crazyhole said:
Not exactly compelling testimony unless you binge watch MSNBC.
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It’s not just them. I went to find a decent article about the Brooklyn Center OIS and in that article, they linked the following 5 articles, basically forming the narrative in just the headlines. Sadly, this is all that most people will read.

  • George Floyd trial: Bystander videos of arrest 'made clear how he died', court hears​

  • George Floyd 'died from lack of oxygen', leading breathing expert tells trial, as Derek Chauvin watches on​

  • George Floyd trial: Derek Chauvin should have used 'no force' after detaining unarmed man, trial hears​

  • Officers are advised to 'stay away from the neck', ex-cop's former colleague tells George Floyd trial​

  • George Floyd: What will the Derek Chauvin trial mean for race relations in the US?


    ​

 
The state is trying to put another expert on the stand that is testifying in his first case. With all of the money that they had in their war war chest, you’d think their roster would be full of expert pathologists and physicians that have long history with these types of cases. Wonder why they’ve had to resort to first-timers.
 
sk8knight said:
The state is trying to put another expert on the stand that is testifying in his first case. With all of the money that they had in their war war chest, you’d think their roster would be full of expert pathologists and physicians that have long history with these types of cases. Wonder why they’ve had to resort to first-timers.
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Wow. So this witness says there were no issues at all with Floyd's heart. Even high blood pressure is no big deal.
 
This guy is a very compelling witness, but I can't get past the idea of a doctor saying that an enlarged heart, 90% blockage of arteries, and high blood pressure is no big deal. If my doctor said that, I probably wouldn't go back to him.
 
KnighttimeJoe said:
Yup the dude had an Enlarged heart
Blockage of 75% and 90%
The cocktail of Fentanyl, meth, and dope in his system
Downed some painkillers as well
COVID
Click to expand...
Even if you believe all of these things is what really led to Floyd's death, that doesn't exonerate Chauvin.

A crowd of bystanders could see the man was in serious medical distress but the four officers involved were somehow OBLIVIOUS to all signs -- verbal and otherwise -- that the Black man they had on the ground was in trouble?

You don't think that all those minutes they had him pinned to the ground didn't contribute to his death? Hell, Chauvin KEPT HIS KNEE on the victim even after he was told Floyd didn't have a pulse!!!

You are going to tell me with a straight face that these are the actions of an innocent man?

As I said from the outset of the trial, you don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to see that Chauvin is guilty as sin. The only decision the jury really has to make once the judge turns it over to them is to determine the extent he played a role in Floyd's death.
 
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DaShuckster said:
Even if you believe all of these things is what really led to Floyd's death, that doesn't exonerate Chauvin.

A crowd of bystanders could see the man was in serious medical distress but the four officers involved were somehow OBLIVIOUS to all signs -- verbal and otherwise -- that the Black man they had on the ground was in trouble?

You don't think that all those minutes they had him pinned to the ground didn't contribute to his death? Hell, Chauvin KEPT HIS KNEE on Floyd even after he was told Floyd didn't have a pulse!!!

You are going to tell me with a straight face that these are the actions of an innocent man?

As I said from the outset of the trial, you don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to see that Chauvin is guilty as sin. The only decision the jury really has to make once the judge turns it over to them is to determine the extent he played a role in Floyd's death.
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"Contributed to his death".

There are a lot of people that contributed to his death, including the crowd. The prosecution needs to prove that Chauvin CAUSED his death. Anything less than that is reasonable doubt. There's still a chance they can get a guilty verdict on manslaughter, but both murder charges are essentially off the table at this point.
 
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I'm going to predict that the defenses cross examination will look like this:

If a patient came to you and had an enlarged heart, 75-90% blockage of their arteries, high blood pressure, was a habitual user of meth and fentanyl, and smoked, would you say that patient was healthy?

It doesn't matter how he answers that question, the defense can walk away.
 
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Crazyhole said:
"Contributed to his death".

There are a lot of people that contributed to his death, including the crowd. The prosecution needs to prove that Chauvin CAUSED his death. Anything less than that is reasonable doubt. There's still a chance they can get a guilty verdict on manslaughter, but both murder charges are essentially off the table at this point.
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If the jury believes Chauvin cut off Floyd's oxygen, then the murder charges are on the table. If the jury believes it was the drugs and heart condition that put him in medical distress, then the manslaughter charge is the answer because nine and a half minutes of cellphone video footage made it crystal clear Chauvin deliberately ignored Floyd's pleas for medical assistance.

My point is that he's guilty either way you wanna slice or dice it.
 
DaShuckster said:
Even if you believe all of these things is what really led to Floyd's death, that doesn't exonerate Chauvin.

A crowd of bystanders could see the man was in serious medical distress but the four officers involved were somehow OBLIVIOUS to all signs -- verbal and otherwise -- that the Black man they had on the ground was in trouble?

You don't think that all those minutes they had him pinned to the ground didn't contribute to his death? Hell, Chauvin KEPT HIS KNEE on the victim even after he was told Floyd didn't have a pulse!!!

You are going to tell me with a straight face that these are the actions of an innocent man?

As I said from the outset of the trial, you don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to see that Chauvin is guilty as sin. The only decision the jury really has to make once the judge turns it over to them is to determine the extent he played a role in Floyd's death.
Click to expand...
I am telling you that all of what I typed is enough for a germ of reasonable doubt.
 
KnighttimeJoe said:
I am telling you that all of what I typed is enough for a germ of reasonable doubt.
Click to expand...
You and I are jury members and you tell me and the rest of the jury that Floyd's medical conditions were enough to plant a 'germ of reasonable doubt' in your mind. My response to you is that it's not enough to believe Floyd's medical conditions were the sole reason for his death.

You also have to believe that there was absolutely nothing Chauvin and the other officers could have done at any point during Floyd's arrest to save his life.

Given the circumstances, that's an awfully lot of 'reasonable doubt' to swallow.
 
DaShuckster said:
You and I are jury members and you tell me and the rest of the jury that Floyd's medical conditions were enough to plant a 'germ of reasonable doubt' in your mind. My response to you is that it's not enough to believe Floyd's medical conditions were the sole reason for his death.

You also have to believe that there was absolutely nothing Chauvin and the other officers could have done at any point during Floyd's arrest to save his life.

Given the circumstances, that's an awfully lot of 'reasonable doubt' to swallow.
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You're completely backwards on this. It's not a matter of whether the police could have done something that saved his life, it's a matter of whether there is any way he could have survived with what the police did.
 
DaShuckster said:
You and I are jury members and you tell me and the rest of the jury that Floyd's medical conditions were enough to plant a 'germ of reasonable doubt' in your mind. My response to you is that it's not enough to believe Floyd's medical conditions were the sole reason for his death.

You also have to believe that there was absolutely nothing Chauvin and the other officers could have done at any point during Floyd's arrest to save his life.

Given the circumstances, that's an awfully lot of 'reasonable doubt' to swallow.
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It only takes one.
 
That was a truly bizarre testimony all the way around. I have absolutely no idea how the jury will perceive it. It seemed to border on delusional at times.
 
It seems to me that the prosecution is taking a really risky approach to this. They could make the case that Floyd did have a heart condition, and if not for Chauvin kneeling on him he would have lived with that condition for years. That would be grounds for a murder charge and I think it would resonate with the jury. What they are doing by saying his heart conditions were no big deal and that his drug use is a non-factor totally undermines their credibility. If I'm a juror here, I'm calling BS on all of that and think they have no idea what they're talking about. Making the case that not a single healthy person could survive having Chauvin kneel on their back or neck for 9 minutes exits any bounds of credulity.
 
OK, there is no reason that Floyd's brother should be allowed to testify. This is crap.
 
Crazyhole said:
OK, there is no reason that Floyd's brother should be allowed to testify. This is crap.
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This is ridiculous. The prosecution is actually trying to make the case that the term "hooping" means playing basketball. All you have to do is Google the term "hooping", and you won't find a single reference to anybody using that term for basketball.
 
Another unarmed black male murdered in Minneapolis... Great job, pigs.
 
Wow. The defense attorney is tearing this guy apart. The witness sounded so confident in talking about a hypothetical police officer but when being asked about this actual situation in real time, the guy obviously is flailing.
 
Crazyhole said:
Wow. The defense attorney is tearing this guy apart. The witness sounded so confident in talking about a hypothetical police officer but when being asked about this actual situation in real time, the guy obviously is flailing.
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I have already said that I'm not watching the trial so, other than the evening news reports, my knowledge of what's been going on has been limited to what I've read from you and others here.

But assuming that your reports are unbiased (which, sorry, but I'm not completely sold on), it would appear the prosecution has done a horrible job of preparing their witnesses since it sounds from you like every single one of them has been destroyed under cross-examination.
 
"Does the suspect get to dictate whether they have to get into a squad car or does the officer?".

This went downhill fast.
 
Crazyhole said:
It seems to me that the prosecution is taking a really risky approach to this. They could make the case that Floyd did have a heart condition, and if not for Chauvin kneeling on him he would have lived with that condition for years. That would be grounds for a murder charge and I think it would resonate with the jury. What they are doing by saying his heart conditions were no big deal and that his drug use is a non-factor totally undermines their credibility. If I'm a juror here, I'm calling BS on all of that and think they have no idea what they're talking about. Making the case that not a single healthy person could survive having Chauvin kneel on their back or neck for 9 minutes exits any bounds of credulity.
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It would only be murder in that case if Chauvin knew he had a heart condition and outside of procedure intentionally stressed his heart to the point where he died.
 
DaShuckster said:
I have already said that I'm not watching the trial so, other than the evening news reports, my knowledge of what's been going on has been limited to what I've read from you and others here.

But assuming that your reports are unbiased (which, sorry, but I'm not completely sold on), it would appear the prosecution has done a horrible job of preparing their witnesses since it sounds from you like every single one of them has been destroyed under cross-examination.
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No. Tobin did very very well. He's the only one though that ultimately helped the prosecution.

Watch the entirety of this afternoons hearing and you'll see what I'm talking about. The defense attorney is a surgeon.
 
Why would Chauvin pull out his pepper spray and tell the crowd to stay back if he didn't feel threatened by them?
 
_glaciers said:
women aren't fit to be cops. simple as.
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My wife, who is a very good police officer, would strongly disagree. Also, this was an honest mistake that might be manslaughter or not. Either way, all the guy had to do was wear the cuffs and take a ride and let the courts sort it out. Fighting with police officers at the side of the road is a bad act.
 
sk8knight said:
My wife, who is a very good police officer, would strongly disagree. Also, this was an honest mistake that might be manslaughter or not. Either way, all the guy had to do was wear the cuffs and take a ride and let the courts sort it out. Fighting with police officers at the side of the road is a bad act.
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He failed to show up for a court hearing that was being held via Zoom. Something about that makes me laugh.
 
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