flashback to like 2 pages ago when you tried to use some redditor named "VROF" as a legit source lmao
when Derek Chauvin inevitably walks ...
- Thread starter _glaciers
- Start date
flashback to like 2 pages ago when you tried to use some redditor named "VROF" as a legit source lmao
The EMT that checked his pulse may end up being the single biggest witness to this trial. Should be interesting to see what each side does with what he has to say.
Who cares what the witness was wrong on. There is a video. A man is alive under the knee, then is dead under the knee. Witnesses are just part of the process. What more substance do you want?
I can make a video tomorrow that looks just like that video where you would swear I was being suffocated to death but in actuality very little force is applied. You cannot tell how much force any of those officers is using at any time in that video. And a great many other things. You would not want your freedom hinging solely on a video.
Saw something brought up today. The EMT was able to reach down and easily get a pulse from the neck even while Chauvin's knee was on Floyd's neck. Therefore, Chauvin's knee could not have been on the carotid artery, as many have asserted, because then it would be impossible to reach in and get a pulse there.
If that's true, it wasn't cutting circulation OR his airway. If that's the case, then really the only argument left to be made for prosecution would be that Chauvin caused Floyd an unreasonable amount of stress that led to a heart attack.
None of the state's witnesses so far had a complete understanding of the incident and they haven't really contributed much of anything. The ones that had some substance to contribute have been undermined on cross. The prosecutors have been terrible. The defense has been decent. I'm hoping the state has some experts to actually deal with the cause of death and procedural use of force and all of the other stuff.
Keep in mind that these are secondary witnesses. None of them really matter all that much, they are just intended to set the narrative. To that end, yeah the prosecution really bungled this. The day started poorly for them and ended really, really bad with the judge having to lecture the EMT about being a bitch. I'm sure that things will change when the expert witnesses are called, but so far the defense lawyer has been pretty solid.
I’m listening to the radio this morning when the national news bite about the trial comes on. They couldn’t have picked a more inflammatory sound bite if they could. The clip they played was the firefighter EMT, who had only been on the job for a year at the time of the incident, saying that there was no medical personnel on site and that she could’ve saved Floyd. That’s it.
Of course, in the trial you learn that the police followed protocol and called to dispatch for medical early in the incident as they should’ve. In Minneapolis, it’s dispatch that determines what medical response to send. You also don’t get to hear the cross where she won’t answer legitimate questions about what she actually could’ve/would’ve done. You just hear that one clip.
This is why we have riots in the streets when Zimmerman is acquitted, when the Baltimore PD are acquitted, etc. What a shame.
Of course, in the trial you learn that the police followed protocol and called to dispatch for medical early in the incident as they should’ve. In Minneapolis, it’s dispatch that determines what medical response to send. You also don’t get to hear the cross where she won’t answer legitimate questions about what she actually could’ve/would’ve done. You just hear that one clip.
This is why we have riots in the streets when Zimmerman is acquitted, when the Baltimore PD are acquitted, etc. What a shame.
So far the prosecution has really only called 2 witnesses that actually matter to the case. I can't see how the jury isn't getting tired of getting the same thing over and over again when all they have to do is watch the videos. Commentary of how people felt is pretty meaningless. Thank God that the defense isn't cross examining every single witness.
I saw that there were two new cell phone videos that were presented in court. They reveal anything in particular??
Not really. One showed floyd being cuffed and then when the cops helped him up and started walking it was a better angle than what we've seen before. It didn't amount to much but floyd was stumbling way more than what we had seen before but it didn't really add any value for either side.
Watching the body cam footage is painful. Floyd was freaking the hell out. 1 interesting point is that he said the covid is going to kill him. Before he was even on the ground he was yelling mama! mama! I love you! He knew he was going to die even before he was on the ground. Another interesting point is that there was an officer monitoring his pulse for the majority of the time that he was on the ground. The cops knew he was on drugs and were talking about his eye movements, asking if it might be PCP.
How is watching a man die and doing nothing a vindication in any way, shape, or form?
Today’s testimony was again bad for the prosecution. The shop clerk testified that Floyd appeared and acted high, which is in favor of police using an elevated level of force. The video shows an intoxicated Floyd and also shows a very large man, 6’3” 230 or so (I think Chauvin is only 5’9 140). The video also shows the manager carrying his pistol on his back and testimony is that this is a hot zone with a lot of incidents, also going towards the defendant’s use of elevated force. Finally, one of the witnesses surprised everyone, prosecutors included, when he said that Floyd was foaming at the mouth significantly. This is a textbook sign of drug overdose and does not occur with regular asphyxiation.
So, the state has proven that the officers called dispatch for medical following procedure, that Floyd was heavily under the influence and was commuting a crime in a high crime area, which makes it reasonable to be more forceful, and that Floyd shows telltale physical signs of a severe and possibly fatal drug overdose. They’ve basically made the defense’s case for them so far.
So, the state has proven that the officers called dispatch for medical following procedure, that Floyd was heavily under the influence and was commuting a crime in a high crime area, which makes it reasonable to be more forceful, and that Floyd shows telltale physical signs of a severe and possibly fatal drug overdose. They’ve basically made the defense’s case for them so far.
You obviously didn't watch the body cam footage. I don't know if they can even get any of the cops on manslaughter at this point. Floyd was still fighting 2 and a half minutes before the EMTs showed up and they were monitoring his pulse the entire time. They obviously knew he was in distress so they called the paramedics, then all they could do was keep control of a guy that was really out of control. Just watch the last 90 minutes of the trial today and you'll have a much better perspective on what the cops were dealing with.
It's also notable that Chauvin was called in for backup. When he got there, all he knew was that Floyd was trying to get out of the police car. He basically just assisted in keeping floyd restrained in a situation where 2 officers wasn't enough to handle this guy. Literally the only role the man played was to hold him down until medics arrived.
This is WAY different than the narrative we have been fed for the last year.
That’s no surprise, the narrative was set to earn the family and Crump and associates $27 million. And also to win Biden an election. Reality has no place when people think a cell phone video tells the entire story.
In this case, the cell phone video doesn't tell 2% of the story. We now know that there actually wasn't just 1 counterfeit bill but 2 of them. Floyd was shmammered like me on the 4th of July at 2am. He was passing out in the car before the cops showed up and then proceeded to ingest 2 MG of fentanyl on top of his buzz. Fought 2 cops to the point where they needed backup. Claimed he was dying of covid while screaming bloody murder but had a moment of clarity when he heard the cop say they were arresting him for forgery to the point where he paused and calmly said "forgery of what", then continued to be enough of a threat that it took 3 cops to hold him down. He literally asked for the police to put him on the ground. I'm sorry, but looking at the entire situation now, it's pretty obvious that the George Floyd that died last year is the same George Floyd that pointed a gun at a pregnant woman's stomach while robbing her.
Floyd’s girlfriend testified and we found out some interesting things on cross. First, under the name Mama in Floyd’s phone was her (his gf’s) number. So who was he really calling for, his mama? Or the woman who just testified that she shared drugs with him all the time?
The second major revelation is that she said that she’d shared drugs with him before that made his stomach hurt, gave them great energy, and made her feel like she was going to die. She pretty much just described what he described he was going through during the arrest.
The second major revelation is that she said that she’d shared drugs with him before that made his stomach hurt, gave them great energy, and made her feel like she was going to die. She pretty much just described what he described he was going through during the arrest.
I'm starting to see why the prosecution has 4 lawyers on their team and the defense only has 1. He already has controlled the narrative so he's able to keep his cross examinations brief, which I would think the jury appreciates. It would appear that we are starting to get into the primary witness portion of the trial so this thing might not take nearly as long as anticipated. With Morries bowing out and Shawanda likely following suit, we are basically down to the other EMT and the doctors before we get to the expert witnesses. It was interesting to note that the first EMT said he had to use a bigger tube for Floyd's intubation. That pretty much proves that his windpipe wasn't damaged. So much for mechanical asphyxiation.
Oh that’s a money thing. Some of the most powerful lawyers in the country have volunteered to work on the case for the state pro Bono and a lot of money donated from BLM and a number of celebs, the state has basically unlimited resources. Some fund donated $1 million for Chauvin’s defense but that’s a drop in the bucket compared to the state.
Listening to the 2nd paramedic is pretty fascinating. Floyd was technically brain dead within 5 minutes of when he stopped struggling. They were able to get some activity back but couldn't get heart going again. I'm amazed that all of this happened as fast as it did.
Can someone explain to me why the firefighter was called as a witness? And why the judge allowed the line of questioning to even proceed to an hour after what happened? Thank goodness the defense finally objected or that could have gone on forever. The prosecution only asked him 2 questions that were relevant and there hasn't been any dispute to those questions from anybody involved.
Because it's up to the defense to object to questions. The defense could've objected to a large portion of the state's questions because they didn't keep strictly to what the person witnessed but called for a lot of speculation and irrelevance. But then, the trial would take 3 months if they objected to everything so sometimes they just let that stuff go if it's not damaging. The state is certainly pounding the emotional arguments but there is a ton of stuff there that is more than reasonably an alternative cause of death.
Another interesting part, the state has laid the foundation for an edited version of the surveillance and body cam footage to be entered into evidence. Which was granted. They are entering an edited version with a very limited viewer that doesn't allow for pan and zooming of the footage, so basically what we've already seen from the surveillance. The defense then requested that the entirety of the videos be entered into evidence and to use the Minneapolis PD's own system that allows for zoom and pan. This was granted when the prosecution didn't object generally. BUT, the prosecution said they would be objecting to the videos individually later, which brings up the question: Why would the prosecution be objecting to unedited versions of it's own videos?
Oh, and to answer your question, they are trying to save the off duty EMT's testimony that she could've/should've saved him. So, the FD followed procedures and the PD followed procedures but if the PD would've just let the hostile woman in a hostile crowd with no ID calling them all bitches at Floyd, this first-year EMT would have saved him from his drug OD with no equipment and very little real world experience. She hadn't even ever been to a scene where PD had to secure the scene before FD could roll in and that happens frequently.
Those were the prosecution’s own pictures. The defense hasn’t presented evidence yet.
One common theme that I've noticed is that the prosecutions witnesses that were on the scene have showed a little bit of concern that they somehow could be charged with something later on, or at least that's how I perceived it. The 2nd EMT on site was very reticent to answer some questions on cross examination and seemed really kinda pissed that he was even there. Can't blame him either, but his tone was a lot more defensive on cross. I tend to wonder if they might be in personal danger if Chauvin is acquitted and that's affecting their demeanor. Props to the girlfriend though. That had to be a terrible morning for her but she was honest about things that have to be hard to admit to.
With the rhetoric out there about how this trial is a pivotal moment in America, I’d be scared to be a part of this trial.
The prosecution finally produced someone that actually hurts Chauvins defense, but it was undermined a little bit in cross examination. I'd say the lieutenant might have put 2nd degree murder back on the table but still looks like manslaughter is still the more likely outcome.
I don’t know how they’re going to get 2nd degree murder back on the table because I think the defense is going to make a very compelling case that the drug OD killed Floyd. I think they know that and that’s why getting the 3rd degree murder charge reinstated was so important. They are putting forth the argument that the restraint, the lack of any change in tactics as Floyd became less combative and then passed out, and the resistance to letting Hansen assist represent a general set of actions that would like result in death and were directed at Floyd.
This is a new interpretation of the 3rd degree Murder statute that the Supreme Court of Minnesota held in order to allow the prosecution of Mohammed Noor. That ruling is in appeal, which should mean that it isn’t precedent, but Cahill let it in anyways.
I didn’t read the direct; did excited delirium come up? If not, then the defense can’t bring it up on cross. But the defense can bring it up when they present their case and it is crucial here. Because Zimmerman stated that there Is no reason for the use of force but excited delirium is that reason and the officers discussed that on scene.
2nd degree murder includes unintentionally causing death while in the process of committing a felony. I can see how the prosecution could craft their way into saying that what Chauvin was doing could be considered a felony. I don't necessarily agree, but the door has now been reopened. "Deadly force" is the key phrase, and the lieutenant said that in his opinion Chauvin didn't need to use deadly force. The defense somehow needs to prove that it wasn't deadly for 7 minutes and that the last 2 minutes when he passed out were the result of the drug overdose. I think they probably can do that, but it did set them back a little bit. Can they prove that a person can be unconscious for 2 minutes without dying? Probably. But now they have to.
There is no way that they can spin a police officer doing their duties according to procedure to be a predicate felony and make it stick. Every police officer will walk off the job. The protection that you have is that you are doing what you’re taught and what is in the procedural manual. When you start getting rung up for doing that, then you have no protection and we can never ask someone to be a LEO at that risk.
Remember, neither this LT nor the preceding Sgt Did comprehensive investigations. The LT had a couple of hours before the state agency took it over. So what was he making his professional opinion based upon? He also stated that the restraint wasn’t MPD procedure when it was, in fact, in the manual at the time of the incident.
So, if the trial ended right now, I’d say that there is more than reasonable doubt for any non-biased juror. We’ll see what the rest of the trial holds.
