It *might* be a tad bit harder for the defense when the minutes Floyd spent before slipping into a comatose state were spent crying out to the police officers 27 times for help because he couldn't breathe.
when Derek Chauvin inevitably walks ...
- Thread starter _glaciers
- Start date
I guess you'll have to point out where it says in the police manual that an officer should kneel on a man's neck and willfully ignore his desperate pleas for medical assistance until he lapses into unconscious and dies.
Yeah, but not everybody can be as unbiased as you.
It might be except for 2 things. 1. The girlfriend’s testimony about his previous actions on the same drugs and her feeling like she was going to die from them undercuts that. 2. If they admit his previous arrest where he did the same thing but want actually dying.
Maybe then you’ll pivot to banning cars and knives because they represent an existential threat to Democracy.
So if we follow your logic, it's okay for four police officers to willfully ignore a man's cries for help? A 911 operator and a crowd of people can see that Floyd was in obvious distress, but that's okay? Weird, I thought a police officer's role was to protect and serve.
I guess that doesn't apply if you're a Black man on drugs, huh?.
On tonight's evening news coverage of the trial, I heard testimony from a number of senior police officers and detectives saying that Chauvin's actions were excessive and certainly NOT 'according to procedure.'
Let me guess: Another 'emotional' appeal from the prosecution to the jury, right? 🙄
I tend to think that the body cam footage helps the officers out on this front. Floyd was saying he couldn't breathe before he was subdued and put in the police car.
"I can't breathe"
"I'm claustrophobic"
"I'm not that kind of guy"
"I've got covid"
That sounds like someone trying to get out of an arrest, so how do you know when he actually got to the point where "I can't breathe" is a statement of fact, or just a tactic?
if George Floyd had knocked on your door and asked to come in, you wouldn't let him in. if George Floyd had married one of your daughters, you would be horrified.
Quit pretending to be some huge advocate for blacks, I've helped more people of color this week than you have even seen he past 3 decades.
One more note about this trial, the state registered 15 attorneys for this trial. That’s a huge number; the state only had 4 in the Zimmerman trial, for instance. The defense in this trial only has 1 paid for by the Police Defense Fund. This is a huge advantage for the prosecution. It means that each prosecutor can focus on all of the details of one witness and optimize strategy, whereas Nelson has to handle all of his witnesses.
With this team, with the media and public narrative in the juries mind, with the civil settlement tainting the jury, with the prospect of more riots and possible personal jeopardy, if Chauvin is acquitted it will be in spite of the whole world slanted against him, not because of some pro-police bias.
With this team, with the media and public narrative in the juries mind, with the civil settlement tainting the jury, with the prospect of more riots and possible personal jeopardy, if Chauvin is acquitted it will be in spite of the whole world slanted against him, not because of some pro-police bias.
When it comes to ‘advantages,’ I think the testimony of the department’s senior-most detective was a much bigger one. He literally blew apart the defenses‘ assertions that: 1) the arrest was strictly ‘by the book,’ and 2) the use of force was appropriate.
But please, don’t let me stop you guys from opining away at how Chauvin is gonna walk.
He didn’t blow anything away. The only thing that they allowed him to look at was the cellphone videos. He would’ve been totally destroyed if the defense had pulled out the MPD manual and proved him a liar. But they would be limited playing that card on a cross. So they’ll play it during their part of the trial when they have an expert and probably actual trainer talk about how that was a non-lethal restraint and talk about excited delirium and will wipe away this LTs extremely limited testimony.When it comes to ‘advantages,’ I think the testimony of the department’s senior-most detective was a much bigger one. He literally blew apart the defenses‘ assertions that: 1) the arrest was strictly ‘by the book,’ and 2) the use of force was appropriate.
But please, don’t let me stop you guys from opining away at how Chauvin is gonna walk.
According to yesterday’s senior detective on the force, Chauvin’s use of force was “totally unnecessary.”
Yeah, no doubt the defense will ‘expert’ their way over that testamony.
Dear George,
I apologize that a white female 911 dispatcher sent EMTs to the wrong address then took law into her own hands and called the police sergeant (bypassing policies in an activist manner) rather than ensure the EMTs arrived at the correct location.
I’m sorry that a white female girlfriend (mother figure) enabled your drug addictions and added needless drama and trauma into your life as she used you like a sexual object.
I’m sorry a black Bruce Lee wannabe agitated the scene and distracted police and medical attention from you.
I’m sorry the angry mob caused such a delay in getting urgently needed medical care causing the ambulance to have to drive blocks away to have a safe area to work in but it was too late by then, whereas were the scene calm, care could have begun sooner.
I apologize that a white woman firefighter further agitated the mob and distracted police and broke her bonds of trust with fellow responders by taking the side of the criminal and the angry mob.
I’m sorry your black drug dealer “friend” made you launder fake $20s for him in exchange for fentanyl which got you into this situation.
I’m sorry that BLM had brainwashed the black community to chant “I can’t breathe” since 2014 anytime there is a police encounter using physical force during an arrest, creating a “cry wolf” scenario where cops will assume the person is faking.
I’m sorry that it took a village to kill George Floyd. Usually it just takes cops, according to BLM.
The real question is: who DIDN'T kill George Floyd? The answer is: Officer Derek Chauvin.
I apologize that a white female 911 dispatcher sent EMTs to the wrong address then took law into her own hands and called the police sergeant (bypassing policies in an activist manner) rather than ensure the EMTs arrived at the correct location.
I’m sorry that a white female girlfriend (mother figure) enabled your drug addictions and added needless drama and trauma into your life as she used you like a sexual object.
I’m sorry a black Bruce Lee wannabe agitated the scene and distracted police and medical attention from you.
I’m sorry the angry mob caused such a delay in getting urgently needed medical care causing the ambulance to have to drive blocks away to have a safe area to work in but it was too late by then, whereas were the scene calm, care could have begun sooner.
I apologize that a white woman firefighter further agitated the mob and distracted police and broke her bonds of trust with fellow responders by taking the side of the criminal and the angry mob.
I’m sorry your black drug dealer “friend” made you launder fake $20s for him in exchange for fentanyl which got you into this situation.
I’m sorry that BLM had brainwashed the black community to chant “I can’t breathe” since 2014 anytime there is a police encounter using physical force during an arrest, creating a “cry wolf” scenario where cops will assume the person is faking.
I’m sorry that it took a village to kill George Floyd. Usually it just takes cops, according to BLM.
The real question is: who DIDN'T kill George Floyd? The answer is: Officer Derek Chauvin.
Since someone mentioned the other guy in the car. The reason that he isn’t testifying is because his lawyer told prosecutors that he would take the 5th and not answer any questions if he were called to the stand. The reason that he did this is because Minnesota has a law that a drug dealer is responsible for murder if their client fatally ODs on drugs they sold. Now, the prosecutors could grant immunity in exchange for testimony but then that becomes a very real alternative theory of the crime and exculpatory evidence for the police. Which they are purposely ignoring off to pursue the villain that everyone wants strung up. How’s that for justice?
And the defense isn't allowed to bring this up. How convenient. Fortunately the jury isn't captive so they probably all already know what's going on.
One more thing the prosecution has cut out of their edited videos is Chauvin ordering Ofc. Lane to get into the ambulance and assist the medics with compressions shortly after the video that we’ve all seen ends. Wonder why they’d intentionally leave that out.
That's called trying to 'Protect your Butt' after the fact.
Chauvin had already been told TWICE while he was still kneeling on Floyd's throat that the guy wasn't showing a pulse.
That is a plausible interpretation. But they have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt and "plausible" means there are doubts. Especially given that the officers discussed Floyd's medical state, called appropriately for medical, discussed excited delirium, etc. The protocol for excited delirium is to hold the person in place so that they don't hurt themselves or others. If it is objectively reasonable that any other officer with the same set of circumstances, knowledge, and in that instant (not 20/20 hindsight) would assess excited delirium.
Look, it's a long trial. Go read an actual transcript or an unbiased legal analysis (not MSNBC/CNN/Slate/Fox/Vox, etc.). Don't take my word for it.
A sizable number of 'objectively reasonable' officers have already stated for the record that FOUR officers on one handcuffed man lying face down in the street with one officer's knee on his neck, ignoring his cries for medical assistance, is unacceptable conduct.
Everybody would agree that 4 officers on one person is excessive force.
3 is the acceptable limit.
This is the lame kind of joking around we get when you guys realize you are going to lose (again.)
An easier way to lose is to make a declarative statement about the number of cops that were on top of him and be wrong on that number.
You people have too much time on you hands. I Have not watched the video nor paid any attention to the trial.
If Floyd died as a result of the officers action, I hope he is convicted, if in reality he died of an overdose, I hope he isn't. Rooting for one side or the other, I don't get.
If Floyd died as a result of the officers action, I hope he is convicted, if in reality he died of an overdose, I hope he isn't. Rooting for one side or the other, I don't get.
The difference between the actual trial testimony, especially the cross-examinations, and what is portrayed in the media is stark and troublesome. It is important to realize that, if Chauvin is acquitted, the cities that are burning, then unnecessary deaths, and all the rest will occur largely because our fifth estate is no longer interested in presenting stories with any accuracy but rather portrays them in a way that will guarantee them customers and serve their ideologies.
As for rooting for one side over the other, why do you root for a UCF sports team that has no effect on anyone's lives other than those students? The results of this trial, in particular, will have wide-ranging effects on every American's lives regardless of whether the verdict is just or not.
I see where a BLM leader put out a video that said if Chauvin isn't convicted that they will be burning down buildings all over the country. We may just as well submit to mob justice.
The only thing I've seen on the news is the same clip of his former boss calling him out for exceeding the 8 minute limit for kneeling on his neck. It's been on-going since last night and all morning. No other witnesses have been shown during that same broadcast cycle.
Well, we now have an expert witness saying that Chauvin wasn't applying a choke hold that would cut off Floyd's breathing, and that a carotid choke would render someone unconscious in less than 10 seconds.
This is probably the biggest testimony to date.
This is probably the biggest testimony to date.
I'll be really interested to see if any media outlet runs with Ofc. Mercil's testimony. He's the defensive tactics (use of force) trainer that trained Chauvin and others on Brazilian Ju-Jitsu and other use of force techniques. The cross has destroyed a lot of the previous testimony of officers and the "use-of-force expert" eyewitness. Mercil might as well be a defense witness at this point.
The state has resorted to the theory that Chauvin should have reassessed at some point and changed tactics. They've pounded that point with every witness. The problem with that is that the officers did indeed call for medical and escalate that medical all (code 2 to code 3) as the situation changed. They're trying to create a theory of reckless indifference. The biggest problem, though, is that they have submitted no evidence that Chauvin caused Floyd's death nor any evidence that he created a situation likely to cause Floyd's death. Since the fact is in evidence that Floyd himself consumed triple the lethal dose of fentanyl, effectively committing suicide, I don't see how this tactic is going to result in any of the charge crimes. Which likely means that we are going to get another round of riots and burning.
That's what kind of irritated me about the news being so selective about what they were showing during the last broadcast cycle. They didn't show anything at all that collaborated the defenses position. It's way more politically driven than it should be thus all but ensuring more rioting.
Yeah, if you listened to the evening news, you'd believe Chauvin's boss, the Minneapolis police chief thought Chauvin violated department policy while restraining Floyd.
Continuing to kneel on Floyd’s neck once he was handcuffed behind his back and lying on his stomach was “in no way, shape or form” part of department policy or training, “and it is certainly not part of our ethics or our values,” he said.
What a load of crap, right guys?*
No one said that it wasn't relevant testimony but it's a very small piece of the evidence in the case. Why not focus on other testimony and evidence equally? Or is there a political agenda at play here?
I could have sworn I read in this very thread from our board's resident 'police expert,' sk8, said that this case would hinge on whether Chauvin and the other cops followed procedure and whether or not they should’ve recognized that he was dying and acted sooner.
Since the prosecution has already blow to shreds your whole "they did things by-the-book" BS, what are you guys going to 'hang your hat' on next?
Have you watched any of the cross examination? If all you see is the prosecutions line of questioning then you're only getting half of the story. The guy that just got done testifying probably helped the defense a little bit, but I'm sure that what you'll see on CNN are the strong points that the prosecution got out of it.
The state has backed themselves into a corner right now with the theory that Chauvin should've de-escalated the use of force once Floyd was no longer actively resisting. Here's some of the cross of Mercil that causes huge problems for the state.
Nelson: In terms of MRT, officers trained to sometimes escalate force, sometimes to de-escalate use of force.
Mercil: Yes.
Nelson: If officer chooses to use MRT, then subsequently decides against it, for medical reasons or lessened resistance, would that be a de-escalation of a use of force?
Mercil: Yes.
In prior testimony and on video we learned that they were going to hobble Floyd but then decided against it. That decision was just validated as a de-escalation by an MPD use-of-force expert.
Nelson: Considerations officer has to take into account on using body weight regardless of whether suspect resisting. Sometimes called for EMS, and officer may restrain suspect with body weight awaiting for EMS.
Mercil: yes.
Nelson: You've done that yourself?
mercil: yes.
Nelson: Until EMS arrives.
Mercil: As long as needed to control them, yes.
Here is the use-of-force expert saying that lengthy restraints may very well be valid while waiting for EMS based on totality of circumstances
Nelson: Can see Floyd's head, and officer Chauvin's knee between shoulder blades?
Mercil: Yes, sir.
Nelson: Does this appear to be a neck restraint?
Mercil: No sir.
Nelson: A prone hold an officer may apply with his knee?
Mercil: Yes.
Here is the use-of-force expert viewing the restraint Chauvin was using validating that it was a valid hold and acknowledging that it was across the trapezoid/shoulder blade area, which was the subject of a number of questions to validate that position.
Nelson: At any point see Chauvin use a chokehold?
Mercil: No.
Nelson: Neck restraint, involved in martial arts since college, also train MMA?
Mercil: Yes to martial arts, no MMA.
Nelson: Train in martial arts, BJJ, you have experienced neck restraints, and have taught hundreds of officers to use neck restraint.
Mercil: Yes.
Nelson: Requires both sides of neck to be compressed to render person uncconsiousn.
Mercil: That is what we teach, yes.
No chokehold was applied, no vascular constraint, and an actual use-of-force expert just refuted the MMA-guys previous testimony that only 1 side of the neck needed to be compressed to render a person unconscious.
There was also a lot of testimony about the size of Floyd (6'6" 230) being a factor and the crowd hostility being a factor in how you restrain and how long you hold the restraint. There's a lot more. I put these here because many of you will never read anything about this testimony otherwise and would go on 100% believing the intentionally edited view that you're currently getting.
Nelson: In terms of MRT, officers trained to sometimes escalate force, sometimes to de-escalate use of force.
Mercil: Yes.
Nelson: If officer chooses to use MRT, then subsequently decides against it, for medical reasons or lessened resistance, would that be a de-escalation of a use of force?
Mercil: Yes.
In prior testimony and on video we learned that they were going to hobble Floyd but then decided against it. That decision was just validated as a de-escalation by an MPD use-of-force expert.
Nelson: Considerations officer has to take into account on using body weight regardless of whether suspect resisting. Sometimes called for EMS, and officer may restrain suspect with body weight awaiting for EMS.
Mercil: yes.
Nelson: You've done that yourself?
mercil: yes.
Nelson: Until EMS arrives.
Mercil: As long as needed to control them, yes.
Here is the use-of-force expert saying that lengthy restraints may very well be valid while waiting for EMS based on totality of circumstances
Nelson: Can see Floyd's head, and officer Chauvin's knee between shoulder blades?
Mercil: Yes, sir.
Nelson: Does this appear to be a neck restraint?
Mercil: No sir.
Nelson: A prone hold an officer may apply with his knee?
Mercil: Yes.
Here is the use-of-force expert viewing the restraint Chauvin was using validating that it was a valid hold and acknowledging that it was across the trapezoid/shoulder blade area, which was the subject of a number of questions to validate that position.
Nelson: At any point see Chauvin use a chokehold?
Mercil: No.
Nelson: Neck restraint, involved in martial arts since college, also train MMA?
Mercil: Yes to martial arts, no MMA.
Nelson: Train in martial arts, BJJ, you have experienced neck restraints, and have taught hundreds of officers to use neck restraint.
Mercil: Yes.
Nelson: Requires both sides of neck to be compressed to render person uncconsiousn.
Mercil: That is what we teach, yes.
No chokehold was applied, no vascular constraint, and an actual use-of-force expert just refuted the MMA-guys previous testimony that only 1 side of the neck needed to be compressed to render a person unconscious.
There was also a lot of testimony about the size of Floyd (6'6" 230) being a factor and the crowd hostility being a factor in how you restrain and how long you hold the restraint. There's a lot more. I put these here because many of you will never read anything about this testimony otherwise and would go on 100% believing the intentionally edited view that you're currently getting.
So you're telling me that the police chief's testimony was trashed on cross-examination?
Trashed? No. Some of it was very much undermined though. It certainly wasn't a testimony that sealed Chauvins fate. The guy that just got done testifying probably made a bigger difference than the chief because he is more of an expert on the techniques that were used.
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