China Trade War
- Thread starter UCFWayne
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People are bitching and moaning over a temporary increase in some consumer goods and crying about Trump, while apparently failing to realize that the cost to this country of continuing to do nothing remains far greater by a huge margin. China has already stolen untold fortunes from this country and they would have continued to do so if Trump didn't put his foot down and bring punitive measures to get them to the table.
"Yea, China has committed generational theft of our IP and our future job industries but wahhhh! muh Ipad costz more! wahh!!"
"Yea, China has committed generational theft of our IP and our future job industries but wahhhh! muh Ipad costz more! wahh!!"
After decades of nearly every smart person saying that we need to address the trade deficit with China, someone finally tries a different tact with China. Thereby causing a mass freak out session because Trump is trying to address the trade deficit and other unfair trading issues with China.
China isn’t going to change their policies towards the US simply because we ask them to or because we show them a business case that we think makes sense. They’ve been waging an economic war against us for years and we’ve been unwilling to acknowledge it. They believe in strength and leverage and respect strength and leverage. So, if no tariffs, what else are you going to do to address the worsening issue?
Exactly. Like I said earlier, we've been an inactive participant in a trade war for 3 decades. Its beyond time to address it.
LMAO please tell me you aren't really going to try and claim a few pennies off gas prices as a trump victory?
Also do you have a study to back up your statement on the china trade war? Not saying you are wrong, but you gotta remember, Trump's main base is the exact demographic that frequents walmart and their "made in china" system.
I don't count the tax cut as a good thing because he didn't cut spending, all it did was drive up the deficit. I'm pro tax cuts, but not mostly to the rich without an associated cut in spending as well.
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The Chinese are gonna pay those tariffs so much we’re gonna be like we can’t take it anymore Mr. President, bigly tremendous trade war win folks.
As I've been telling everyone, we have our own, rare earth mine. It just stopped processing over 2 decades ago, because it was cheaper to ship it 'raw' to China for processing, even with the full turnaround.
Now they are restarting processing, and will be 100% China-free by next year. The US has the resources and capabilities, it's just a matter of people willing to pay.
Now they are restarting processing, and will be 100% China-free by next year. The US has the resources and capabilities, it's just a matter of people willing to pay.
- If we can’t challenge China, no one can, warns operator of only US mine for rare earth metals
KEY POINTS- “If we can’t be economic, there’s no hope for the U.S. industry,” says James Litinsky, co-chairman of the Mountain Pass Materials mine.
- Litinsky estimated that Mountain Pass should be self-sufficient from China by next year and produce its own separated rare earth products.
- In the meantime, he says the mine is seeking help from U.S. government. “But we’re not counting on it,” he adds.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/30/if-...o-one-can-warns-only-us-rare-earths-mine.html
Oh, they can hurt us ... the typical, whinny, "I want cheap goods" American consumer, who wants the "government to subsdize prices."
The reality is that we're overdue to revert the 45+ years of the Cold War Nixon deal back to its original form, and cut China off.
The Trump administration is already getting major players on-board too, Canada, Australia, UK, even some Asian countries, and making overtures to the EU on trade.
As always ... we'll see.
Let’s have fair trade deals with those other countries that you’ve mentioned. Goods may not be made as cheaply, but a lot of the difference will be made up in the lower tariffs
In point of fact, the same is true of any global commodity. People dont understand how rich in natural resources the US is.
It's never dropping under $2/gallon (average national) again. Just move on from hoping.
In all honesty, for our domestic energy and overall economy, $3-3.50/gallon is ideal. I'm fine with that long-term. It'll keep natural gas cheap as well.
Natural gas prices arent going to rise significantly in any of our lifetimes. There are 3 trillion cubic feet of recoverable reserves in the bakken alone that we didnt even knew existed until the mid 2000s. It's cheap and easy to extract, unlike oil. Personally, i think oil is going to follow the dollar more and more in the years to come. OPEC is essentially neutered so even if they try to cut supply, which they won't, it shouldn't outpace inflation by much.
i see more and more of our energy in the future coming from natural gas. hell ive seen several of the garbage trucks around town with natural gas stickers on them.
It’s about $2.45 in Orlando. With all the taxes and taking inflation into account that’s amazing. I’ll take it!
We are becoming less independent on foreign oil every year
Yes, but if it drops under $2/gallon, it bankrupts most of domestic production. That's what the Saudis were trying to do just in the last few years.
It's far, far better and more viable for domestic production at $3-3.50/gallon.
It goes up. It goes down. It was 1.99 last December. It could be there again.
Exactly. Shit goes up. Shit goes down.
Sigh. It's a shame people can't understand basic stuff.
Yes, here in Florida, not national median, much less mean.
Again, American consumers need to understand $3-3.50/gallon is ideal for our economy. That's where I really have a problem with most American consumers.
They don't look at the 'big picture.'
If it goes under $2/gallon long-term, many US regional banks -- who hold most of the loans on domestic energy production -- will falter and major, domestic energy production will fail.
That'll leave us in a really bad state. In fact, Saudia Arabia tried to do that, and between the domestic firms 'going lean,' and the regional banks 'holding on,' it survived.
Guys, don't be ignorant. Energy is mainly supply-side economics here, demand just causes a far smaller variation. I cannot emphasize this enough.
It's no different than semi-conductor, and why many tablets have better components for less cost than notebook PCs -- economies-of-scale, at a sustainable price.
If OPEC and/or Saudia Arabia on its own, try to 'bankrupt' domestic production, we'll be in a world of hurt ... and then they will raise it again, above $4/gallon, especially with speculators only adding to it, trying to 'lock in' prices.
With domestic production, they will never be able to raise it above $4/gallon. Hence why we want it to stay above $2/gallon, long-term.
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There are two aspects that you arent including in your analysis:
1. OPEC at one time was much more powerful than they are now and its not just because of our new domestic oil production. CNG and EV are putting pressure on the oil industry to stay competitive. Fiskers new technology alone could completely tank the oil industry if gas goes to 4 or 5 dollars a gallon for an extended period of time, and the Saudi's know that. There is no way they would risk their long term well being by forcing a glut just for the sake of putting US oil and their banks out of business. They know that there will always be a market for diesel and jet fuel and have to see that its in their best interest to let that come about naturally.
2. Just like China, the Saudis are tied to the dollar. If they do something to destabilize it they stand as much to lose as we do.
BS is making a valid point. In theory it would be much better for the market to stabilize at a level where domestic production doesn't have to stop and start based on fluctuations in the price of oil. In practice, its kind of nice that we have a hedge now that limits the top end of the crude oil market.I drive. I buy food that has to get to Publix and I fly on planes. If that sh_t is $1.00 a gallon, I’m not going to benefit?
Yeah... OK
Correct, the Saudis did this on their own in the last few years. But let's go back before that.
First off, OPEC and speculators caused the original problem in the '00s. Once it hit over $4/gallon, the Fracking investments started, especially massively by '07.
OPEC then learned what they had created. But they also resolved that the EU, China and Pacific Rim is all dependent on them any way, hence why they were looking to move away from the US Dollar.
Unfortunately, the Saudis didn't. They broke with OPEC in trying to bankrupt domestic US production. The Saudis fear a day when the US doesn't give a crap about the Middle East.
But ... NG is the byproduct of Fracking, and became cheap. They are 100% related to domestic production.
And we really don't have the infrastructure for EVs right now. There are lot of issues with electric engines used en masse, beyond just the power grid (long story).
Huh? Fisker (the car company?) is a joke. Don't get me started.
Both China and the Saudis are being stupid. They are being stupid because they are used to US Executives who cave to the US media the second US consumers start complaining.
Trump doesn't. In fact, Trump is a complete wildcard for China, much like Reagan was early on for the Soviets too. That's both good... and bad. But it does make them 'come to the table.'
Yep.
In any case, the age of cheap consumer goods is over in the US, just like gas. American consumers need to wake up and understand the way this happened, and why it was bad before.
But too many Americans want their cheap goods and energy to 'see the big picture.' Sigh ...
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-.../china-approves-wheat-soy-imports-from-russia
China is now buying soybeans from Russia, that used to be bought from us. Trump dumps 14 billion into Farmers Welfare to pay for his idiotic trade war.
#losing
China is now buying soybeans from Russia, that used to be bought from us. Trump dumps 14 billion into Farmers Welfare to pay for his idiotic trade war.
#losing
That's the by-product of fracking in North American, which is why we need more pipelines. The Canadians hate Americans because we refuse to build pipelines, and keep sending aged rail cars through their cities to the east. Canada had been building far more pipelines until recently, now that the self-defeating Obama administration is out of office.
As both the Canadian and US DoTs found, it's 50x more dangerous and hazardous to the environment to use rail than pipelines. But the 3rd grader US media keeps us thinking pipelines are wrong, and the power grid and overall logistics and other realities can be changed overnight. Canadians have always known the opposite, and now the US is finally catching up.
My company release an IT Security report saying that of all of the malicious entry attempts onto our servers, 90% are from China and they’re mostly state sponsored. And there’s tons of them.
Fuk these Communists
Fuk these Communists
i used to be able to view alot of these reports from my old position at my company. most are from china/asia, and also hundreds of times a day
I am on your side here. I am all in on the use of Natural gas and building pipe lines, and I don't give a Frack what the environmentalist say about it. I also am all in on Nuke power.
https://thehill.com/homenews/admini...d-to-latest-tariffs-calls-for-us-companies-to
Trump calls for US companies to 'start looking for an alternative to China'
trade war is about to heat up big time. this is going to hurt...
Trump calls for US companies to 'start looking for an alternative to China'
trade war is about to heat up big time. this is going to hurt...
I started saying it was going to come to this some 3-4 months ago. That the "pivot from China" was coming.
It's clearly China will never compromise, and will actually 'double down.' Americans needs to accept paying $1,000+ more for goods per year. Why? Well, it's actually the cost of goods made in countries that don't do what China does. It's really that simple.
At this point, it's more about American resolve than anything. China thinks Americans will cave. I think they might be gravely mistaken.
In any case, Trump will be blamed for all this ... even though this has been 30 years in the making. It's just Trump who decided to force the issue, to find out what China would do.
I both fear and applaud this 'pivot away' from China.
I will agree with @fried-chicken on one thing- we shouldn’t even trade with these idiots so long as they are running ACTUAL concentration camps which they are
That's the key. If the economy hits a recession as a result, it would be all-for-not to 'give in' to China in 2021.
According to FC, China should not trade with us. we have Concentration camps on south border.
You realize that would hurt us as well right? And by the way, TPP would have put pressure on China but because that was an Obama thing, Republicans (and to be fair some Dems) couldnt support that, so now we are going about it in a way that completely hurts us and drives down our own society.
https://aede.osu.edu/news/us-withdrawal-trans-pacific-partnership-tpp-hurts-us-benefits-china
https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/22/perspectives/us-china-trade-war-tpp/index.html
https://qz.com/1044656/trumps-china...-down-on-chinese-intellectual-property-theft/
https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-abe-us-japan-trade-tpp-20190425-story.html
“Some Democrats”? The Democratic nominee for president in 2016 vowed to kill TPP too. SMH
TPP would have done exactly nothing to curb Chinas behavior in this country. Nothing. I am all for Trump tightening the screws on these evil bastards and I don’t give a shit if people must pay $50 more for an iPhone that theyre spendinf too much on to begin with
Or maybe Apple can simply eat the cost in their insane margins and not charge people more for doing business in a shithole country run by Communists with 1M minorities in concentration camps?
Clinton was for TPP, then hedged on it to appease Sander's supporters. Her reasoning was in regards to things that could have been worked out within the existing agreement, and most everyone thinks something would have been worked out had she been elected. Or to be honest, she might have just stuck with the existing deal. It was a mistake on her part to say she was against it, but she wasnt really against it.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/top-china-expert-u-s-biggest-strategic-mistake-was-exiting-tpp/
"The TPP was the way to get China to address a lot of what we're now trying to get them to address with tariffs," said Johnson, who was for years a senior China analyst at the Central Intelligence Agency, and who now holds the Freeman Chair in China Studies at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.
TPP was designed to move business out of China or to make them adjust their practices, which is what you are wanting. If a Republican came up with TPP you guys would be wetting yourself over it, but because anything attached to Obama you guys think is evil, so you cut your nose off to spite your face.
It isnt just about Iphones. You know how many products we buy that are made in China? Trump made his ties in China for gods sake. And farmers all over this country are losing money due to Trump's tarriffs, but for some reason you guys think this is a good thing. This is from yesterday.
https://thehill.com/policy/finance/...emns-new-tariffs-trump-is-making-things-worse
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