Juneteenth Will Be a Federal Holiday

[Knight In TN]

One good measure is home ownership. Median age of a first time home buyer has increased over time since the 70s. But not only that, the house price to income ratio in 1970 was 1.7. It is currently at around 3. So people on average are now older when they are able to purchase their home and also have to finance a much larger portion of their home price.

Know what else has risen since the 70s? Average age people get married. By nearly a decade.

Lots of people are making different choices in what they want to do with their lives, and marriage and home ownership (both signs of prioritizing stability over independence) has been a choice that’s been delayed for a lot of people.

Prices are rising because the growth of housing inventory isn’t keeping up with the growth of demand. Especially in places like California, where getting a new housing development approved has proven to be far too difficult.

But please don’t pretend that societal priorities and behaviors haven’t changed drastically since the 70s.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

Know what else has risen since the 70s? Average age people get married. By nearly a decade.

Lots of people are making different choices in what they want to do with their lives, and marriage and home ownership (both signs of prioritizing stability over independence) has been a choice that’s been delayed for a lot of people.

Prices are rising because the growth of housing inventory isn’t keeping up with the growth of demand. Especially in places like California, where getting a new housing development approved has proven to be far too difficult.

But please don’t pretend that societal priorities and behaviors haven’t changed drastically since the 70s.

It’s supply and demand. As the country gets more populated, housing gets scarcer. This causes housing inflation at a much higher rate than consumer prices. You have a good point on the average age of marriage being a factor. But that doesn’t explain why the home price to income factor has nearly doubled. Fact of the matter is to live in a core neighborhood within a city is now unobtainable for most people whereas 50 years ago it was not. This has also cause the average work commute time to increase over time. It will be interesting going forward if this continues and housing becomes more expensive and people spend more and more time in cars commuting. But at least they have a cell phone which means their standard of living is high. Right?

 

[DaShuckster]

Fact of the matter is to live in a core neighborhood within a city is now unobtainable for most people whereas 50 years ago it was not.

This. ^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Crazyhole]

It’s supply and demand. As the country gets more populated, housing gets scarcer. This causes housing inflation at a much higher rate than consumer prices. You have a good point on the average age of marriage being a factor. But that doesn’t explain why the home price to income factor has nearly doubled. Fact of the matter is to live in a core neighborhood within a city is now unobtainable for most people whereas 50 years ago it was not. This has also cause the average work commute time to increase over time. It will be interesting going forward if this continues and housing becomes more expensive and people spend more and more time in cars commuting. But at least they have a cell phone which means their standard of living is high. Right?

Not totally true. You can buy a fixer-upper in greater Detroit for under a thousand bucks. Housing is affordable as long as you don't demand a mansion out of high school.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

Not totally true. You can buy a fixer-upper in greater Detroit for under a thousand bucks. Housing is affordable as long as you don't demand a mansion out of high school.

The affordability I was referencing wasn’t absolute affordability, but affordability in relative comparison to decades past. Yes housing is affordable if you are willing to live in less desirable areas with less opportunities for employment or willing to spend extra free time commuting.

 

[sk8knight]

Right and the additional gains in benefits has been dwarfed by increases in necessities like healthcare and housing that far far outpace the CPI. Median income has increased by about 500% since 1970 in unadjusted dollars. Healthcare costs are up 850% and housing cost are up 1800% over that time period. The same standard of living today requires massive amounts of accumulated debt. Credit card debt is up 25000% since 1970. This isn’t strictly people running up debt to splurge on luxuries.

Most of the credit card debt in this country is indeed unnecessary spending. Nonetheless, I’m going to have to disagree with you about what today’s poor have and don’t have compared to what they had access to in 1981.

 

[sk8knight]

One good measure is home ownership. Median age of a first time home buyer has increased over time since the 70s. But not only that, the house price to income ratio in 1970 was 1.7. It is currently at around 3. So people on average are now older when they are able to purchase their home and also have to finance a much larger portion of their home price.

There’s far more to that than just prices.

 

[Cubs79]

Not totally true. You can buy a fixer-upper in greater Detroit for under a thousand bucks. Housing is affordable as long as you don't demand a mansion out of high school.

Detroit is a mess of a city though and is one of the fastest shrinking cities in the country. Detroit isnt an example of what is going on in many markets across the country. Plus, a fixer upper also costs to fix it up, so the actual sales price wouldnt be the entire price of the home.

 

[Cubs79]

Most of the credit card debt in this country is indeed unnecessary spending. Nonetheless, I’m going to have to disagree with you about what today’s poor have and don’t have compared to what they had access to in 1981.

But doesnt that go to the quality of life argument? IF people have to put a vacation or something like that on a credit card because they cant afford to pay for it with cash, then that certainly isnt a strong argument for how great the quality of life in the US is.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

There’s far more to that than just prices.

Household debt to GDP ratio has nearly doubled over the past 50 years. This is primarily mortgage debt, not credit card debt. So while the median income has stagnated (in real dollars), the relative mortgage payments have increased. The increased cost for housing is not an equity problem, but a monthly cash flow problem. It is a factor as to why the personal savings rate in the US has steadily decreased since the 1970s.

 

[Knight In TN]

It’s supply and demand. As the country gets more populated, housing gets scarcer. This causes housing inflation at a much higher rate than consumer prices. You have a good point on the average age of marriage being a factor. But that doesn’t explain why the home price to income factor has nearly doubled. Fact of the matter is to live in a core neighborhood within a city is now unobtainable for most people whereas 50 years ago it was not. This has also cause the average work commute time to increase over time. It will be interesting going forward if this continues and housing becomes more expensive and people spend more and more time in cars commuting. But at least they have a cell phone which means their standard of living is high. Right?

You’re talking about things that aren’t a result of policy failure.

Demand for city housing continues to go up as the population grow, but almost definitionally there’s no possibility of expanding the supply. The space is already developed.

Additionally, it’s a larger reflection of shifting priorities. People married, had families, and moved to the suburbs more quickly in the past. Now they’re waiting longer to marry, choosing not to have children, and are more likely to have two well-established careers by the time they get married. Those things lead people to prioritize living in the city for much longer, which is going to raise prices.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

You’re talking about things that aren’t a result of policy failure.

Demand for city housing continues to go up as the population grow, but almost definitionally there’s no possibility of expanding the supply. The space is already developed.

Additionally, it’s a larger reflection of shifting priorities. People married, had families, and moved to the suburbs more quickly in the past. Now they’re waiting longer to marry, choosing not to have children, and are more likely to have two well-established careers by the time they get married. Those things lead people to prioritize living in the city for much longer, which is going to raise prices.

Who said it was policy failure? People are claiming the US standard of living has risen meanwhile people have more debt, less savings, and are working long hours while real wages have stagnated. But I guess if you base standard of living on having an iPhone we are doing pretty well.

 

[sk8knight]

But doesnt that go to the quality of life argument? IF people have to put a vacation or something like that on a credit card because they cant afford to pay for it with cash, then that certainly isnt a strong argument for how great the quality of life in the US is.

That’s the thing: in 1981, you didn’t have near the numbers of people spending a third of their wages in a year on a Disney vacation. Nor $300/month on DirecTV with Sunday Ticket and the MLB pass. Nor staying in nice hotels and flying to vacations. I was poor as hell growing up, we were on food stamps for awhile and using the county health clinic. I can tell you that kids these days live an entirely different life than I or my friends did.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

That’s the thing: in 1981, you didn’t have near the numbers of people spending a third of their wages in a year on a Disney vacation. Nor $300/month on DirecTV with Sunday Ticket and the MLB pass. Nor staying in nice hotels and flying to vacations. I was poor as hell growing up, we were on food stamps for awhile and using the county health clinic. I can tell you that kids these days live an entirely different life than I or my friends did.

But aren’t we trying to make america great again?*

 

[sk8knight]

But aren’t we trying to make america great again?*

I laughed.

It’s a marketing slogan designed to counter the constant barrage of America is horrible that a lot of us feel we get from all corners.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

That’s the thing: in 1981, you didn’t have near the numbers of people spending a third of their wages in a year on a Disney vacation. Nor $300/month on DirecTV with Sunday Ticket and the MLB pass. Nor staying in nice hotels and flying to vacations. I was poor as hell growing up, we were on food stamps for awhile and using the county health clinic. I can tell you that kids these days live an entirely different life than I or my friends did.

People took expensive vacations and flew on planes in the 80s. Maybe you didn’t, but many people did it. Most people aren’t taking expensive vacations to Disney either (magic kingdom had 16 million visitors in 2019, most of them not unique visitors and many from foreign countries and there are 350 million people in the country). I also don’t think the people who have issues with the standard of living are spending $300 on DirectTV. There are currently tens of millions on food stamps in the US.

 

[sk8knight]

People took expensive vacations and flew on planes in the 80s. Maybe you didn’t, but many people did it. Most people aren’t taking expensive vacations to Disney either (magic kingdom had 16 million visitors in 2019, most of them not unique visitors and many from foreign countries and there are 350 million people in the country). I also don’t think the people who have issues with the standard of living are spending $300 on DirectTV. There are currently tens of millions on food stamps in the US.

As the parks and the tourist industry see record numbers beyond population growth and the number of expensive options has increased, I’d say it’s pretty obvious that the percentages are not equal. In 1981, you had grandparents that lived the Great Depression. Many of their lessons of discipline and restraint still endured. That changed with the consumerism of the 80’s and it’s been perfected now.

 

[chemmie]

Stop trying to explain things to idiots.

 

[hemightbejeremy]

As the parks and the tourist industry see record numbers beyond population growth and the number of expensive options has increased, I’d say it’s pretty obvious that the percentages are not equal. In 1981, you had grandparents that lived the Great Depression. Many of their lessons of discipline and restraint still endured. That changed with the consumerism of the 80’s and it’s been perfected now.

The record growth is due to international tourism. Particularly from new money in places like China. An expensive vacation being expensive has little to do with the stagnation of the lower middle class over the past 50 years. These people aren’t the ones spending a grand on a night at a Disney hotel. They may be the ones who save up for 5 years and stay at the all star resort. But I’m 100% positive people were also vacationing in the 80s even though Disney wasn’t open (was it?) I’m sure of it.

Also, people are flying now because it is often the cheapest mode of travel and is the cheapest it has ever been. Domestic flights are roughly half the price (in adjusted dollars) that they were in the 80s with much more nonstop destinations. International flights are a quarter of what they were.

 

[goodknightfl]

I agree. If people are concerned about the cost, I would suggest there are some federal holidays that we don't need anymore.

By the way, if you've ever interacted with any European businesses, you come away feeling like Americans are little worker ants who MUST live, breathe, and sleep work 24/7, 7 days a week.

Agree, That is what I said, get rid of some or all of them. Federal employees get sick days, personal days, and Vacation time, weekends, plus 12 or now 13 federal holidays. It is a wonder they have any time left to work.

Assuming you are fairly new with 2 weeks vacation, 5 personal days, 5 sick days, 104 weekend days, and 13 national holidays you get 136 out of 365 days off every year. If you have been there longer you may add 5 or 10 more days off. Poor bureaucrats, they have to work 58 to 62% of the days of the year...

 

[chemmie]

14 HOR members voted against a holiday in remembrance of the end of slavery in the U.S.A.

ALL were Republican white males.

 

[chemmie]

Agree, That is what I said, get rid of some or all of them. Federal employees get sick days, personal days, and Vacation time, weekends, plus 12 or now 13 federal holidays. It is a wonder they have any time left to work.

Assuming you are fairly new with 2 weeks vacation, 5 personal days, 5 sick days, 104 weekend days, and 13 national holidays you get 136 out of 365 days off every year. If you have been there longer you may add 5 or 10 more days off. Poor bureaucrats, they have to work 58 to 62% of the days of the year...

Sir, you've been bamboozled. Keep following your orders.

Obey. Work. Consume.

 

[sk8knight]

The record growth is due to international tourism. Particularly from new money in places like China. An expensive vacation being expensive has little to do with the stagnation of the lower middle class over the past 50 years. These people aren’t the ones spending a grand on a night at a Disney hotel. They may be the ones who save up for 5 years and stay at the all star resort. But I’m 100% positive people were also vacationing in the 80s even though Disney wasn’t open (was it?) I’m sure of it.

Also, people are flying now because it is often the cheapest mode of travel and is the cheapest it has ever been. Domestic flights are roughly half the price (in adjusted dollars) that they were in the 80s with much more nonstop destinations. International flights are a quarter of what they were.

Disney was open in the 80’s. I’m not just talking about the theme parks though. I’m talking about the types of hotels and vacations that people are taking and what they’re doing on vacations.

I’m just going to disagree with you on this, if that’s ok. The culture is entirely different now and we are pathologically consuming items at rates far beyond what we did then. There are so many options and they are constantly bombarding us and people, by and large, live for the moment and not with any type of plan.

Which doesn’t even mention where our poor are on the hierarchy of needs compared to where they were and where US poor are compared to many other countries that aren’t lily-white European nations with uber-strict immigration policies. We can talk about whether our policies have stuck them in their economic class but that’s a different conversation.

 

[chemmie]

Just maybe they didn't want another federal holiday. Federal employees are lazy enough. They should be required to remove a federal holiday if adding one.

Yea. That's it.

 

[Knight In TN]

Yea. That's it.

Do you want a federal holiday celebrating Harriet Tubman’s birthday? How about the anniversary of Jack Robinson breaking the color barrier?

If you don’t, is it because you’re racist?

 

[chemmie]

Do you want a federal holiday celebrating Harriet Tubman’s birthday? How about the anniversary of Jack Robinson breaking the color barrier?

If you don’t, is it because you’re racist?

Yea, because once you open the floodgates, they'll never stop. Black folks already have a holiday and a month, we can't possibly give them anything else!

This is the same argument you guys used for gay marriage. I'm still waiting for people to marry their pet frogs.

 

[Knight In TN]

Yea, because once you open the floodgates, they'll never stop. Black folks already have a holiday and a month, we can't possibly give them anything else!

This is the same argument you guys used for gay marriage. I'm still waiting for people to marry their pet frogs.

I’m in favor of Juneteenth as a holiday. But I’m not a crazy person like you who thinks that anyone who disagrees would automatically be a white supremacist on principle.

 

[chemmie]

I’m in favor of Juneteenth as a holiday. But I’m not a crazy person like you who thinks that anyone who disagrees would automatically be a white supremacist on principle.

Why is Juneteenth just now being recognized? Is it just because of some "woke movement?"
There are a hell of a lot of people who believe that. They believe this is some fake, made up, bullshit to appease black folks.
That is racism.

It has taken until the 2010's and 2020's for somebody, not our schools and universities but just a grass roots ground "woke" movement, for the American public to finally learn about the day slavery finally ended in the United States. Even after slavery was illegal, many of our states refused to end the practice. This dark history of the United States has been completely whitewashed and downplayed, and few people care because they never learned about it.

Juneteenth is significant. There was a large group of people who didn't have freedom after July 4, 1776. Juneteenth was the day they finally received at least a portion of freedoms afforded to white Americans.

Not supporting this comes down to two possible reasons: ignorance of the significance, or racism.

 

[Knight In TN]

Why is Juneteenth just now being recognized? Is it just because of some "woke movement?"
There are a hell of a lot of people who believe that. They believe this is some fake, made up, bullshit to appease black folks.
That is racism.

It has taken until the 2010's and 2020's for somebody, not our schools and universities but just a grass roots ground "woke" movement, for the American public to finally learn about the day slavery finally ended in the United States. Even after slavery was illegal, many of our states refused to end the practice. This dark history of the United States has been completely whitewashed and downplayed, and few people care because they never learned about it.

Juneteenth is significant. There was a large group of people who didn't have freedom after July 4, 1776. Juneteenth was the day they finally received at least a portion of freedoms afforded to white Americans.

Not supporting this comes down to two possible reasons: ignorance of the significance, or racism.

Like I already said: I fully support celebrating Juneteenth. I don’t know of a day that’s more worthy of celebration in America.

But again, you have an extraordinarily narrow mind if you think that not supporting a new federal holiday can ONLY be for two possible reasons.

 

[DaShuckster]

I’m in favor of Juneteenth as a holiday. But I’m not a crazy person like you who thinks that anyone who disagrees would automatically be a white supremacist on principle.

It's always the extreme (i.e. ANYONE WHO DISAGREES AUTOMATICALLY IS A WHITE SUPREMACIST TO LEFTIES.) Apparently it's uncomfortable to have it pointed out -- like in the case of the MLK Jr holiday -- how Southern States made it 'amenable' for their lawmakers by combining it with a celebration of...get this --- confederate generals of all people.

By playing the 'leftists think everyone is a racist' card, you belittle the very real racism that does still exist in this country.

 

[Knight In TN]

It's always the extreme (i.e. ANYONE WHO DISAGREES AUTOMATICALLY IS A WHITE SUPREMACIST TO LEFTIES.) Apparently it's uncomfortable to have it pointed out -- like in the case of the MLK Jr holiday -- how Southern States made it 'amenable' for their lawmakers by combining it with a celebration of...get this --- confederate generals of all people.

By playing the 'leftists think everyone is a racist' card, you belittle the very real racism that does still exist in this country.

Hey genius, two posts above yours Chemmie actually said that anyone who doesn’t support it was either ignorant of the significance or racist.

I didn’t play a “leftists think everyone is a racist card.” I responded to someone who was actually making accusations of racism.

And no, that in no way “belittles” any real racism.

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

"Ehrrrrr WE DON'T NEED NO MORE FEDERAL HOLIDAYS!!!" is a convenient cover for those who want nothing to do with Juneteenth.

You want a Federal Holiday back? Fine, take Columbus Day. It's only celebrated by stupid yankees up north, as it were.

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

We keep adding federal holidays there won't be a need for federal employees.

Among the dumbest shit you've ever posted, and that's saying a lot, Melvin.

 

[chemmie]

Hey genius, two posts above yours Chemmie actually said that anyone who doesn’t support it was either ignorant of the significance or racist.

I did, and I gave examples of why people we all are/were ignorant, and a typical reaction based in racism.
As an anecdote, my own brother gave me that exact example this past weekend, saying he was happy to get the day off this Friday because his company is "woke" and now gives them Juneteenth off. That is racist.

The only example we have so far in return is "there are too many holidays," coming from one of the guys in this forum who has been on the wrong side of racial debates many times.

 

[chemmie]

You don't have to be a card-carrying Klansman to be racist. But, when you have the same contempt for African-Americans, and a complete ignorance of their history, over and over and over again, it shows.

From George Floyd, to George Zimmerman, to Confederate Monuments and the Confederate Flag, to making a mockery of "wokeness", to attempting to disenfranchise black voters, to the constant denigration of crime in primarily black areas, to the contempt of black protesters, to "Blue Lives Matter" and "All Lives Matter" as a reply to cries for justice, to claiming black folks use their welfare checks for Jordans and designer purses, to actually fraternizing with torch-carrying neo-nazis waiving Swastikas...

I could do that for days. There are hundreds of examples.
So, stop protesting so hard that you are wrongly called racist, because there are plenty of reasons why it happens. And, the only thing you have to do to make it stop is educate yourself and think a little harder about WHY things are the way they are.

 

[sk8knight]

You don't have to be a card-carrying Klansman to be racist. But, when you have the same contempt for African-Americans, and a complete ignorance of their history, over and over and over again, it shows.

From George Floyd, to George Zimmerman, to Confederate Monuments and the Confederate Flag, to making a mockery of "wokeness", to attempting to disenfranchise black voters, to the constant denigration of crime in primarily black areas, to the contempt of black protesters, to "Blue Lives Matter" and "All Lives Matter" as a reply to cries for justice, to claiming black folks use their welfare checks for Jordans and designer purses, to actually fraternizing with torch-carrying neo-nazis waiving Swastikas...

I could do that for days. There are hundreds of examples.
So, stop protesting so hard that you are wrongly called racist, because there are plenty of reasons why it happens. And, the only thing you have to do to make it stop is educate yourself and think a little harder about WHY things are the way they are.

That’s an awful lot of words just to rationalize calling everyone racist who disagrees with your viewpoint of socioeconomic issues concerning POC.

 

[chemmie]

That’s an awful lot of words just to rationalize calling everyone racist who disagrees with your viewpoint of socioeconomic issues concerning POC.

When the shoe fits...

 

[JuliusTrey]

I spent my work life embracing the Good Ol' Red, White, and Blue American work ethic so you don't have to convince me of the wealth and prosperity it can bring. I was speaking more about establishing a healthy balance.

I'm really enjoying my retirement and wonder how much more enriching my adult work life could have been if I had stopped a bit more often to 'smell the roses.'

 

[UCF11and1]

Agree, That is what I said, get rid of some or all of them. Federal employees get sick days, personal days, and Vacation time, weekends, plus 12 or now 13 federal holidays. It is a wonder they have any time left to work.

Assuming you are fairly new with 2 weeks vacation, 5 personal days, 5 sick days, 104 weekend days, and 13 national holidays you get 136 out of 365 days off every year. If you have been there longer you may add 5 or 10 more days off. Poor bureaucrats, they have to work 58 to 62% of the days of the year...

That is just stupid. The only difference is 4 or 5 holidays compared with any other Joe that works. Everybody gets 2-3 weeks vacation, x personal days, 5 or so sick days, 104 weekend days and 7-8 holidays.

I (private sector) get 25 days PTO to take as I want, 1 personal holiday and (7 + 1) "normal" holidays. With the personal holiday you can pick any day (probably to avoid people bitching about their religious holiday that doesn't allow then to work). The +1 holiday is picked by each office, I think Atlanta takes MLK but most of the country takes the friday after thanksgiving.

 

[UCF11and1]

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That is the reason to go overseas for any vacation = usually no access to internet (you can claim that anyway)