Us embassy in iraq
- Thread starter Crazyhole
- Start date
Would you offer up a new treaty with someone who just tore up the last one for absolutely no reason? It isn't just about Iran operating in good faith, we have to operate in good faith too.
Iran signed the treaty, got a shit ton of cash, and the very first thing they did was pump funds into their regional terrorist networks and ICBM programs. All of which negatively impacted the US or our allies.
Does that sound like "good faith" to you?
Ok, sure. Money flowed in and Iran's economy didn't get a lick better, yet soon after they demonstrated new ICBM capabilities and Hezbollah just happened to have a massive new arsenal of advanced weapons that caught Israel totally off guard. Yep, nothing to see here - that money didn't matter a bit!
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/07/hezbollah-iran-new-weapons-israel/565796/
"Foreign-intelligence assessments appear to lend credence to Hajj Mohammed’s bravado. A senior U.S. counterterrorism official told me that Hezbollah’s arsenal includes at least 100,000 rockets and missiles, 10 times the number the group had in 2006. These weapons likely include the Iranian-made Fateh-110 missile, scud missiles, guided surface-to-air missiles that could target Israeli warplanes, and an increasingly sophisticated drone program, the official said. Israeli military officials, meanwhile, have warned that Hezbollah could fire 1,200 rockets a day in a future conflict—up from the roughly 100 rockets a day 12 years ago."
"Iran’s missile capabilities, however, are improving every year. It could develop more advanced technology to regulate its missiles’ thrust, and outfit them with GPS systems. Perhaps more worrisome for the Israelis: Elleman said there is evidence that the Iranians are trying to miniaturize some of their guidance components, which could make some of Hezbollah’s smaller rockets more accurate as well."
Iran and its Lebanese ally, Hezbollah, have obtained advanced missiles that are designed to exploit those weaknesses. For Israeli security officials, the nightmare scenario is that these weapons may become accurate enough to hit Israel’s civilian and military infrastructure, paralyzing daily life in the country.
This article was after the Iran deal had alredy been canceled and is a lot about what they "could" develop.
Once upon a time, Trump proclaimed that he could "get a better deal" with Iran.
For all the hand-wringing from the Trumpsters about it, no one is claiming they weren't abiding by the terms of the Obama Agreement.
And now?
Let's hear how much safer we all are now that Trump ripped the agreement up and infuriated both Iran and our European allies. Thank God Iran ignored Trump's saber-rattling and made a counter-attack designed to save face at home without escalating the conflict into a full-scale war.
For all the hand-wringing from the Trumpsters about it, no one is claiming they weren't abiding by the terms of the Obama Agreement.
And now?
Let's hear how much safer we all are now that Trump ripped the agreement up and infuriated both Iran and our European allies. Thank God Iran ignored Trump's saber-rattling and made a counter-attack designed to save face at home without escalating the conflict into a full-scale war.
Jesus dude you really just see what you want. The money had already been sent and the article outlined the absurd arsenal that Hezbollah is now sitting on - an arsenal that could literally paralyze Tel Aviv if they wanted to. All with advanced weapon technology that they didn't possess until recently. You do realize that every single item Hezbollah receives is from Iran yes?
Of course the money had been sent, it was part of the deal, nobody denies that. But when we ended the deal (again WE ended the deal) then the deal is off. But for some reason you still expect them to abide by a deal that no longer exists. Anyway, this is pointless we will just have to agree to disagree.
There were 7 other countries involved in the deal. It wasn't just between us and them, it included the EU players, china and Russia. Yes we are the big dog but Iran had Germany, france, and the UK who didnt pull out so they had an opportunity to improve relations with them by sticking to it. If they were being completely forthright about it the only country lost in the deal was the US. To my knowledge, trump didnt tell anybody to pull out of the deal and didnt instruct any other country to reimpose sanctions that were lifted.
Trump was literally on international TV yesterday morning specifically telling the other countries to pull out.
It's like you try to be as uninformed as possible. I'm almost impressed.
Dude, when we left the deal we also issued harsh sanctions against them. Why in the world are they going to stick with a deal and be punished at the same time? This idea that anyone, is going to stick with an agreement that the other major party in the agreement has bowed out, is simply not realistic.
US sanctions. They still had the EU on board and China+Russia on their side. Seems like they had a lot to gain by holding their ground and proving to other "enemies" and providing proof to their allies that they were a good actor.
You can't honestly expect a country to abide by an agreement that the other principal party not only doesn't abide by anymore, but is also punishing you at the same time even though they were the ones who ended it. That simply isn't how the world works and nobody reasonable would it expect it to work that way.
What did they have to gain by holding their ground? Russia and China they are already friendly with, so that wouldn't change, and I don't know they are big "enemies" with the EU nations like they are the US. Even if they proved they were good actors with the EU then what changes? They get a pat on the back? They are still being sanctioned by the US either way.
Last edited:
Can Iran not have economic success without us involvement? They had an opportunity to open additional channels with france and Germany that have nothing to do with us.
People are pissed off about how russia was kicked out of the G8 and then "let" back in, but the G7 was doing just fine without them. Iran, germany, france, russia, and china were all on the same page. Only the UK followed suit when we left the agreement and even that was contentious. Am I really supposed to think that 2 of the 7 signatories to the agreement are more powerful than the other five?
Iran had the opportunity to build alliances based on mutual trust outside of our involvement and they walked away. We had nothing to gain by entering the agreement and they had a ton to gain, yet you're claiming we hurt them and had to pull out?
I don't know what you are going on about with alliance and trust and some ridiculously naïve nonsense. Nothing you are saying has anything to do with US sanctions or the US pulling out of the Iran deal. Iran still has the opportunity to open up additional channels (with complications from US sanctions) I don't know why you think the Iran deal mattered for that? Iran trades with the EU and China, and are certainly close allies with Russia.
You are supposed to think the most powerful nation and largest economy on Earth certainly has an impact on Iran's economy yes. And that when we pull out of an agreement, that agreement is then null and void, because it is. You are really going out of your way to blame Iran for ending the deal, but we were the one's who ended it, and when we ended it, it was over.
Last edited:
Once upon a time, America's word meant something to the world. Nowadays, America's word is as worthless as a degree from Trump University.
Just think about this for a second. Why, economically, does anything the US have to do with Iran and vice versa? Neither of us have anything to gain or lose. We dont buy from them, they dont buy from us. Our sanctions amount to Jack squat in the grand scheme of things. Germany, france, and the uk are a large enough market for oil that iran can tell us to screw off and sell it to them. Just stick with the deal and make us into the bad guy if they were being honest in the first place. Russia and China already have open trading with iran, and those are 2 pretty big markets and they have the opportunity to build trust with another 3 of the biggest markets in the world as long as they stick to what they said they would do.
LOL when was that? When Obama drew a red line in Syria, had it violated, did nothing about it, and allowed Russia to exert incredible influence in the Middle East for the first time in years and years, while watching the broader region spiral into chaos?
That’s when “our word meant something”?
One thing I think we can all agree with, there's no one more qualified than Jared Kushner to be in charge of bringing peace to the middle East. I know we are all in agreement that he's doing an incredible job.
Or when we refused to come to the aid of our ally to stave off Russian aggression in the Ukraine?
It's incredible. These buffoons still act like the Obama era foreign policy was made of gold, even though our spheres of influence arguably when to shit faster under him than any other time in modern history. The Middle East literally spiraled into regional chaos thanks to a lack of engagement, relations with Israel sunk to their lowest in decades, Russia became massively emboldened and re-energized due to our abandonment of Syria, and China exerted more influence in their region of influence with basically no push back.
Oh, and then they ran guns to a cartel in Mexico that ended up killing a US border agent.
They already trade with those nations (minus the UK I believe due to US sanctions), and the EU. So what exactly do they gain by sticking with the deal? Trading with the same nations they are already trading with? Why not just trade with those nations, and not abide by the previous deal with regards to inspections and nuclear power, etc? You are acting as if Iran was/is cut off from the world if they dont abide by the non existant deal, but that simply isnt the case.
It is quite a leap to equate the party that was honoring the deal to being dishonest, when it was the other side the ripped up the deal. Put this in an everyday situation. IF you go get a 3 year lease on a car from a dealership and are making your payments and following the guidelines of the lease, but the dealership ends it early and takes the car back after 1 year, by your logic, you would still pay the lease for the remainder of the term you agreed to, because you were honest and and intended on paying for it all 3 years anyway. See how dumb that sounds?
Last edited:
This is the kind of bullsh*t that has absolutely no place on an adult discussion board.
Leave it to 85 to characterize anyone he disagrees with as a terrorist sympathizer.
The right's political rhetoric has gotten so bad though that 85 was simply parroting actual GOP leaders who has the unmitigated gall to say the same thing about Democrats in Congress publicly.
This is the kind of bullsh*t that has absolutely no place on an adult discussion board.
Leave it to 85 to characterize anyone he disagrees with as a terrorist sympathizer.
The right's political rhetoric has gotten so bad though that 85 was simply parroting actual GOP leaders who has the unmitigated gall to say the same thing about Democrats in Congress publicly.
The rights political rhetoric?
"He's gonna put you back in chains" ring a bell? How about "trump is literally a Nazi"?
This is the kind of bullsh*t that has absolutely no place on an adult discussion board.
Leave it to 85 to characterize anyone he disagrees with as a terrorist sympathizer.
The right's political rhetoric has gotten so bad though that 85 was simply parroting actual GOP leaders who has the unmitigated gall to say the same thing about Democrats in Congress publicly.
There are Democrats today, including the idiot from Indiana, who are going around asserting that Trump is to blame for Iran shooting down the Ukrainian 737. That somehow Trump has blood on his hands because the Iranians are idiots armed with systems they don't understand.
Please, spare me your utter bullshit. You're exactly like these people, so yes- I will say that you're shilling for Iran since their media quite literally borrowed soundbites from our own left wing media, which sounds a lot like you, to use as propaganda back home.
Classic Whataboutism. Is that supposed to justify YOUR bullsh*t?
Yeah, man, it's all on me.
When did whataboutism become a defense? Seems like its a better argument for someone making the claim than as a defense from an opponent.Classic Whataboutism. Is that supposed to justify YOUR bullsh*t?
Yeah, man, it's all on me.
When 85 says trump did the exact same thing as obama, or when you say obama did the same thing as bush that should be a pretty good point. It's not a bad way to make your argument and it has less to do with hypocrisy as it does precedent.
DS: OMG, this has never been done and is the most horrible thing in the history of the world.
Normal Person: Everybody who has held the office has done this. It is SOP for these reasons....
DS: Don't give me your whataboutism. This is the worst thing ever in the world and and anybody who doesn't agree that this is the worst thing ever in the world is King of the Stupids. Also, Trump Russia Putin AHHHHHHHHHH
You tell me. 85 calls posters who he disagrees with terrorist sympathizers and I call him out about it.
So does he apologize or even speak to the issue in any way, shape, or form??? Hell no.
His response is to point out one batsh*t crazy response from an Indiana democrat about who he said was really to blame for the Ukrainian plane shoot down.
My post had ZERO to do with the Ukrainian plane, Trump, or Obama so there was absolutely no reason to bring up Trump or Obama in a response. My issue had 100% to do with the board conduct of UCFKnight85. So if you want to analyze something, try analyzing 85's characterization of posters here as 'terrorist sympathizers.'
So you can constantly criticize anything and everything that the guy 85 supports but he can't criticize something that a guy you support said? Either stand up for what the guy you like said or denounce it, dont make it about another person's opinion. Just stop tiptoeing around the issue by attacking someone else and make your case. We still have no idea where you stand on any issue until trump does something and then you're against it literally every single time.
Its terrifying enough when nobodies like 85 do it, but the sad thing is sitting congressmen are doing it. just goes to show 85 truly is totally incapable of thinking for himself, he has to follow his parties lead to the T.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/doug-collins-apologizes-for-claiming-democrats-are-in-love-with-terrorists
After sparking intense backlash by claiming Democrats are “in love with terrorists,” Rep. Doug Collins (R-GA) walked back his comments on Friday and offered an apology. “Let me be clear: I do not believe Democrats are in love with terrorists, and I apologize for what I said earlier this week,” Collins tweeted. After saying his comments were in response to House Democrats attempting to limit the president’s authority to wage war with Iran and that he witnessed “vicious terrorist” Qassem Soleimani killing soldiers “firsthand,” Collins noted that “does not excuse my response on Wednesday evening.”
Following his inflammatory remarks on Wednesday, Sen. Tammy Duckworth (D-IL)—an Iraq War veteran who lost both legs after her helicopter was shot down in 2004—fired back: “I left parts of my body in Iraq fighting terrorists. I don’t need to justify myself to anyone.”
Seriously, what the F*** are you talking about??!?
85 attacked posters here as being shrills to a terrorist.
And you attack posters for supporting trump, what's the difference? I just wish you would have come out ahead of time and made your case for what we should have done re: Iran so it didnt seem like no matter what Trump did it would be opposite of your desires. Complain about Wayne and 85 all you want, but at least they'll put their necks out there in advance of what trump does. I realize that would make you vulnerable but at least it would seem less partisan.
Let's just start with this: what should trump do with the troops we have stationed in the middle east?
Latest posts
-
-
🚨 Conference Realignment Mega Thread: Clemson sues the ACC 🚨- Latest: UCF_SystemsEng
-
OT: War in Israel 🇮🇱, Iran launches attack on Israel- Latest: San Diego Knight
-
-