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Vegas shooting

Under the NFA, it is illegal for any private civilian to own any fully automatic weapons manufactured after May 19, 1986. Only certain types of FFL/SOTs may make them, and then only for purchase by qualified state and federal agencies. There are no exceptions. According to the ATF’s official handbook on NFA laws and regulations, it’s not even legal to make new replacement parts for pre-1986 machine guns: “There is no exception allowing for the lawful production, transfer, possession, or use of a post-May 18, 1986 machinegun receiver as a replacement receiver on a weapon produced prior to May 19, 1986.”

So, yeah, it's not legal. And as for the argument that bump stocks aren't fully auto: I know you're trying to get me on a technicality, but effectively it's fully auto, as demonstrated here.

are they incredibly accurate? No. Is there a point to them other than it being "badass"? no. Vegas shooter didn't need to be accurate as he was spraying hundreds of rounds a minute into a crowd of 22,000 people.

Wrong. Not illegal, how are you still confused on this.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Machine-Guns/BI.aspx

5 second Google search.

As for bumpfire stocks, all they do is make it slightly easier to bump fire (which is basically using the recoil of the rifle to simulate full auto). I can bumpfire some of my guns without a bunch.pfire stock, takes a little practice but not that hard. Are you going to ban my knowledge of this along with banning these modified stocks? Are you going to ban YouTube training videos on how to modify a regular stock so it's a little easier to bumpfire? Are you going to just ban YouTube? Or just ban information in general?
 
I also did a 5 sec google search.

http://thefederalist.com/2017/10/02/actual-federal-laws-regulating-machine-guns-u-s/

"In conclusion, fully automatic weapons are highly regulated under both federal and state law. Only licensed entities are permitted to manufacture, sell, or own them. Private civilian ownership of machine guns is illegal unless the individual has been explicitly permitted by the federal ATF to own them. All fully automatic weapons must be registered with the federal government in a central registry with no exceptions. A special tax is levied on all NFA items (machine guns, suppressors, short-barreled rifles, short-barreled shotguns, and destructive devices) with no exceptions."

And from the ATF Guidebook itself:

"Firearm Owners’ Protection Act. In 1986, this Act amended the NFA definition of “silencer”
by adding combinations of parts for silencers and any part intended for use in the assembly or
fabrication of a silencer.6 The Act also amended the GCA to prohibit the transfer or possession of
machineguns.7 Exceptions were made for transfers of machineguns to, or possession of machineguns
by, government agencies, and those lawfully possessed before the effective date of the prohibition, May
19, 1986."

Bump stocks were created to circumvent the law and the entire process of having to go through the arduous registration process. That is plain and simple. The fact is that they are garbage to use and serve no practical purpose other than wanna-be Call of Duty warriors feeling badass. So, the only argument is "slippery slope!" Which is total bullshit. I'm as liberal as they come, and I am not for banning guns, knowledge of guns, etc. I am for sensible regulation on things that serve no practical purpose unless you're a god damn crazy mass murderer or terrorist.
 
I also did a 5 sec google search.

http://thefederalist.com/2017/10/02/actual-federal-laws-regulating-machine-guns-u-s/

"In conclusion, fully automatic weapons are highly regulated under both federal and state law. Only licensed entities are permitted to manufacture, sell, or own them. Private civilian ownership of machine guns is illegal unless the individual has been explicitly permitted by the federal ATF to own them. All fully automatic weapons must be registered with the federal government in a central registry with no exceptions. A special tax is levied on all NFA items (machine guns, suppressors, short-barreled rifles, short-barreled shotguns, and destructive devices) with no exceptions."

And from the ATF Guidebook itself:

"Firearm Owners’ Protection Act. In 1986, this Act amended the NFA definition of “silencer”
by adding combinations of parts for silencers and any part intended for use in the assembly or
fabrication of a silencer.6 The Act also amended the GCA to prohibit the transfer or possession of
machineguns.7 Exceptions were made for transfers of machineguns to, or possession of machineguns
by, government agencies, and those lawfully possessed before the effective date of the prohibition, May
19, 1986."

Bump stocks were created to circumvent the law and the entire process of having to go through the arduous registration process. That is plain and simple. The fact is that they are garbage to use and serve no practical purpose other than wanna-be Call of Duty warriors feeling badass. So, the only argument is "slippery slope!" Which is total bullshit. I'm as liberal as they come, and I am not for banning guns, knowledge of guns, etc. I am for sensible regulation on things that serve no practical purpose unless you're a god damn crazy mass murderer or terrorist.

I'm confused, earlier you stated that full auto firearms were banned (which they are not) and I said that was wrong. Now you are admitting in the last paragraph here that full auto is not banned/illegal. That was the basis of my objection to your full auto argument. They are regulated, not illegal. All it takes to get one is having enough cash (they start at $4k) and going through an antiquated background check and paying a $200 NFA fee.

You never answered my question regarding bumpstocks and if it should be illegal to bumpfire semi-automatic guns.
 
Yes it should be illegal

Well now that's a bit different than what you said earlier: that it is already illegal. If this is what you have been trying to say the entire time you have done a shittastic job of conveying that.
 
Well now that's a bit different than what you said earlier: that it is already illegal. If this is what you have been trying to say the entire time you have done a shittastic job of conveying that.
Only three (3) stamped, automatic weapons have been used in crimes since 1934, especially since they cannot be sold or transferred (at least not outside of their trust) since 1986. Automatic weapons have been and always will be the domain of organized crime.

Even the Brady Foundation keeps pushing this same sleight-of-hand BS. They go off on automatic weapon discharges to push a "gun safety" agenda, and forget to tell people that legal owners are not the ones committing crimes with them at all!
 
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Only three (3) stamped, automatic weapons have been used in crimes since 1934, especially since they cannot be sold or transferred (at least not outside of their trust) since 1986. Automatic weapons have been and always will be the domain of organized crime.

Even the Brady Foundation keeps pushing this same sleight-of-hand BS. They go off on automatic weapon discharges to push a "gun safety" agenda, and forget to tell people that legal owners are not the ones committing crimes with them at all!

This is why I don't read your long posts, even your short ones are wrong.

Anyone can buy a full auto, as long as the gun was made and registered before '86.

Source: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-machine-guns-be-transferred-one-registered-owner-another
 
...and? Honestly, it would be a horrible PR move to say/do anything different.

Well, you just had dipshit Nancy Pelosi going on record that she hopes bumpstock legislation would be a "slippery slope" for a lot more gun control.

You guys are funny. You launch into absolute hysterics over the NRA when they don't do what you want, and then act like it's no big deal when they call for more regulations on something.
 
Well, you just had dipshit Nancy Pelosi going on record that she hopes bumpstock legislation would be a "slippery slope" for a lot more gun control.

You guys are funny. You launch into absolute hysterics over the NRA when they don't do what you want, and then act like it's no big deal when they call for more regulations on something.
You can’t actually have discussions with these folks
 
Well, you just had dipshit Nancy Pelosi going on record that she hopes bumpstock legislation would be a "slippery slope" for a lot more gun control.

You guys are funny. You launch into absolute hysterics over the NRA when they don't do what you want, and then act like it's no big deal when they call for more regulations on something.

85, you're smarter than that. It's a strategic move on their behalf. They realize that there's going to be growing pressure to get SOMETHING done, so, this is an obvious choice.

Of course, the dems wants more. They always have.
 
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85, you're smarter than that. It's a strategic move on their behalf. They realize that there's going to be growing pressure to get SOMETHING done, so, this is an obvious choice.

Of course, the dems wants more. They always have.

Yes they have always marched out dumb shit legislation that doesn’t actually address any major problem.

At least you guys have the NRA boogeyman.
 
It's sort of funny to hear the hysteric Trump haters on this issue. On one hand, they assure everyone that Trump is a mini-dictator who is going to destroy the rule of law in the country, impose his will on every issue, and usher in a new era of every bad thing you can imagine. Then, in the very next breath, they'll laugh it up about how "Trump can't get anything done!" and that he's useless. It's just hilarious hypocrisy and irony.

He's an unstoppable dictator one minute, and then a helpless puppet who can't get anything done the next.
He is just a moron and it is best that nothing gets done for the next 3 years
 
I have fired a rifle with a bump stock and can confirm that it's utterly hopeless trying to hit anything with it.

You are correct. Other than the first round, it's totally impossible to hit a smaller target with the second round while using the bump stock...unless your target is the broad side of barn from 20 yards. Those bump stocks really have no true practical purpose.
 
Other than the first round, it's totally impossible to hit a smaller target with the second round while using the bump stock...unless your target is the broad side of barn from 20 yards. Those bump stocks really have no true practical purpose.

Or..if your target is 23,000 people packed into an open area like sardines without any cover, odds are you will hit HUNDREDS of targets in just 10 minutes and some of them sadly will get killed.
 
There's a former Trump campaign advisor now out there claiming that he's being leaked "proof" from someone within the Admin that the terrorist was inspired or linked to ISIS and there's a video to prove it. And that it's being held back only because authorities don't want it to be used to trigger other cell members.

I still find the ISIS-connection to be extremely unlikely but this guy was the one who leaked that Manafort was wire tapped before it became confirmed news.
 
There's a former Trump campaign advisor now out there claiming that he's being leaked "proof" from someone within the Admin that the terrorist was inspired or linked to ISIS and there's a video to prove it. And that it's being held back only because authorities don't want it to be used to trigger other cell members.

I still find the ISIS-connection to be extremely unlikely but this guy was the one who leaked that Manafort was wire tapped before it became confirmed news.


And then there's this from a guy who knew the shooter (dated his girlfriend's sister, and traveled to Vegas and the Phillippines with him multiple times)

"He said Paddock was 'condescending' towards Ms Danley, 62, making her 'nervous and jittery', while also making the most of prostitutes offered to him by casinos.

Mr Le Fevre said Paddock had a room full of guns in his home at Mesquite and was a stringent defender of the second amendment to the United States constitution.

'He was very strict and very firm on the fact that it's a right. It's the freedom of every American to participate, to own a gun and use it… when need be.'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Vegas-shooter-says-used-free-prostitutes.html

Doesn't seem like the type of guy who would join up with ISIS.
 
And then there's this from a guy who knew the shooter (dated his girlfriend's sister, and traveled to Vegas and the Phillippines with him multiple times)

"He said Paddock was 'condescending' towards Ms Danley, 62, making her 'nervous and jittery', while also making the most of prostitutes offered to him by casinos.

Mr Le Fevre said Paddock had a room full of guns in his home at Mesquite and was a stringent defender of the second amendment to the United States constitution.

'He was very strict and very firm on the fact that it's a right. It's the freedom of every American to participate, to own a gun and use it… when need be.'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Vegas-shooter-says-used-free-prostitutes.html

Doesn't seem like the type of guy who would join up with ISIS.

It also doesn't sound like a guy who would spend most of his free time, for years, plotting how to carry out a massive terrorist attack. Wealthy guys who jet set the globe, gambling and buying hookers doesn't typically strike me as the terrorist type.

That's the whole point here. Nothing makes sense.
 
It also doesn't sound like a guy who would spend most of his free time, for years, plotting how to carry out a massive terrorist attack. Wealthy guys who jet set the globe, gambling and buying hookers doesn't typically strike me as the terrorist type.

That's the whole point here. Nothing makes sense.

I wonder if he had some sort of brain issue, like a tumor in the frontal cortex or something. That can lead to impulsiveness and aggression. Though, from the limited info we have, it seems like he was kind of a dick. Plus, his family was kinda trashy and he's the one who made all the money. ****ing nutjob no matter how you slice it.
 
Well now that's a bit different than what you said earlier: that it is already illegal. If this is what you have been trying to say the entire time you have done a shittastic job of conveying that.

This is why I don't read your long posts, even your short ones are wrong.

Anyone can buy a full auto, as long as the gun was made and registered before '86.

Source: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-machine-guns-be-transferred-one-registered-owner-another

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i find the phone calls to his personal cell very interesting. i think i read that he had also wired other money overseas besides the $100k to his girl friend. its starting to sound like he was radicalized at some point.
 
Sooooo... for 9 years, Republicans told us that Democrats were coming to take their gunz. Nothing happened.

Now that Republicans have full control of everything, they are actually coming to take yer gunz!!!
 
Sooooo... for 9 years, Republicans told us that Democrats were coming to take their gunz. Nothing happened.

Now that Republicans have full control of everything, they are actually coming to take yer gunz!!!

This is actually pretty ironic.
 
Sooooo... for 9 years, Republicans told us that Democrats were coming to take their gunz. Nothing happened.

Now that Republicans have full control of everything, they are actually coming to take yer gunz!!!
not for a lack of trying.
 
Investigators are trying to determine whether anyone else was in the Las Vegas gunman's hotel room during the time he was registered there, multiple senior law enforcement officials briefed on the investigation told NBC News.

The investigators are puzzled by two discoveries: First, a charger was found that does not match any of the cellphones that belonged to the gunman, Stephen Paddock.

And second: Garage records show that during a period when Paddock's car left the hotel garage, one of his key cards was used to get into his room.
https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/l...-probing-whether-others-were-gunman-s-n808431
 
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There’s cameras in every hallway. They should be able to know fairly easily if someone else was coming and going.
 
There’s cameras in every hallway. They should be able to know fairly easily if someone else was coming and going.

That's one thing that hasn't really been discussed publicly, and I think that's on purpose. I think they know already if someone was with him, but they don't want to alert that person. If there are cameras in every hallway, elevator and garage, they've already gotten a look at this person and are tracking him/her down. Not saying it was an accomplice, and if that one report is true and he enjoyed "escorts", then it could have been a "companion" coming and going from his room. But, it sounds awfully suspicious. That person - if they exist - is probably shitting themselves right about now.
 
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That's one thing that hasn't really been discussed publicly, and I think that's on purpose. I think they know already if someone was with him, but they don't want to alert that person. If there are cameras in every hallway, elevator and garage, they've already gotten a look at this person and are tracking him/her down. Not saying it was an accomplice, and if that one report is true and he enjoyed "escorts", then it could have been a "companion" coming and going from his room. But, it sounds awfully suspicious. That person - if they exist - is probably shitting themselves right about now.

I doubt it's an escort. If it were, it'd mean this asshole was letting hookers come and go freely, even when he's not around, and could have run the risk that one of them found his stash/plans and called the police before he could unleash hell.
 
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That's one thing that hasn't really been discussed publicly, and I think that's on purpose. I think they know already if someone was with him, but they don't want to alert that person. If there are cameras in every hallway, elevator and garage, they've already gotten a look at this person and are tracking him/her down. Not saying it was an accomplice, and if that one report is true and he enjoyed "escorts", then it could have been a "companion" coming and going from his room. But, it sounds awfully suspicious. That person - if they exist - is probably shitting themselves right about now.
Could also be they have a video of the person but can't ID them. Maybe they were wearing a hat to conceal their face knowing there's cameras.

One interesting clip I heard was from a former CIA agent. He said these shootings typically fall into two categories.
1. Shooter seeking notoriety and indiscriminately killing for more infamy.
2. Shooter has an agenda and the attack is targeted for some political purpose.
He followed the list up by saying that #1 typically is perpetrated by younger shooters. It's unusual to get into the 60's and not see signs if it falls into #1. He concluded with the belief there's some political motivation, whether ISIS or something else.
 
Yep, this changes everything. Wikipedia has already updated the timeline ...

Shooting
Attack and counter-operations
...
A little before 10p.m. PDT, hotel security guard Jesus Campos went to the 32nd floor in response to an open door alarm. He then began to investigate what appeared to be sounds of drilling that were coming from Paddock's room. Paddock, who had been firing bullets through the door of his suite at 9:59p.m., shot more than 200 rounds of ammunition through the door; the volley of fire injured Campos in the leg. According to Sheriff Joe Lombardo, Campos immediately notified hotel security about his injury.[10][11]

Paddock broke two of his suite's windows with a hammer, and at about about 10:05p.m. he began to shoot, firing hundreds of rifle rounds into the festival audience.[12][13][14] Many people in the crowd initially mistook the gunfire for fireworks.[15] During the shooting, a security fence hindered concertgoers from fleeing the 15-acre concrete lot.[16] The gunfire continued, with some momentary pauses, over the span of ten minutes and ended by 10:15p.m.[17][18]

Two of the bullets fired by Paddock traveled 2,000 feet (600 m) to hit a large aviation fuel tank at the McCarran International Airport. One of the bullets penetrated the tank and the other lodged in the tank's outer shell, but the fuel did not ignite or explode, and was unlikely to have done so.[19]

During the shooting, police officers were initially confused whether the shots were coming from the Mandalay Bay, the nearby Luxor hotel, or the festival grounds.[16] There were also multiple false reports of additional shooters at other hotels on the Strip.[20] Officers eventually spotted multiple flashes of gunfire in the middle of the Mandalay Bay, on the northern side, and responded to the hotel. At 10:12p.m., two officers on the 31st floor reported the sounds of gunfire on the floor above them.[16] First responders met Campos on the 32nd floor at 10:18p.m., who directed them to Paddock's room.[11]

Between 10:26 and 10:30p.m., another eight officers reached the 32nd floor. They could no longer hear gunfire and moved systematically down the hallway, searching and clearing each room, using a master key provided by Campos. At 10:55p.m., the officers finished evacuating guests. At 11:20p.m., police breached Paddock's room with explosives.[18][16][21] Paddock was found dead, having shot himself in the head before the police entered.[22][23][24][25] At 11:27p.m., officers announced over the police radio that one suspect was down.[18][26]
 
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It sounds like the Mandalay Security totally screwed up and didn’t notify the police ASAP that a nutjob has launched 200 rounds through his door prior to 10 pm. If that went out to all local PD they possibly could have responded ASAP to his room and stopped him soon after opening fire below
 
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It sounds like the Mandalay Security totally screwed up and didn’t notify the police ASAP that a nutjob has launched 200 rounds through his door prior to 10 pm. If that went out to all local PD they possibly could have responded ASAP to his room and stopped him soon after opening fire below
It's as I've been saying to most everyone I know ... Las Vegas resorts are very loose with security, and that's gonna have to change.
 
It sounds like the Mandalay Security totally screwed up and didn’t notify the police ASAP that a nutjob has launched 200 rounds through his door prior to 10 pm. If that went out to all local PD they possibly could have responded ASAP to his room and stopped him soon after opening fire below
Maybe they called the local PD but the call became "one more" of 100s of 911 calls once the guy started shooting out the window.
 
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