Of course, but that has nothing to do with the actual discussion. Nobody is protesting because the police killed some dude going on a shooting spree, they are protesting what they look at as unjust killings, which the raw #s dont show one way or the other.
"What was he doing wrong?"
- Thread starter ChrisKnight06
- Start date
Of course, but that has nothing to do with the actual discussion. Nobody is protesting because the police killed some dude going on a shooting spree, they are protesting what they look at as unjust killings, which the raw #s dont show one way or the other.
Really? Sure looks like Atlanta thinks otherwise. In the wake of the shooting, one officer was fired and another was placed on administrative leave. The Chief of Police resigned and the Mayor said the shooting was not justified.
But hey, the head of the police union agreed with you.
The GBI cleared the cop actually, and congrats on forcing out an openly gay female chief of police. Way to murder a unicorn in the name of “progress”
Sure you do. Its called "defund the police". Because they're all bad and not doing what we want them to.
I havent ever said to defund the police, and Ill certainly say it is a dumb slogan. But, this is interesting. As someone who prides themselves as a conservative who doesnt want an overarching government, shouldnt people who feel a section of the government has failed them, be able to change that section? Let's look at Minneapolis. Their city council voted to defund the police unanimously. Each council member represents a part of Minneapolis, from rich neighborhoods, to poor neighborhoods, white, black, etc etc. So if the entire council, which represents all walks of life in the city, thinks it needs to change, then shouldnt you, a conservative, have their back in trying to reform the department so it works better for the city? Isnt that the whole idea behind being a conservative?
Well to begin with, and the only thing worth responding to in your retort is that I'm not a conservative. Beyond that point you might notice that I've been an advocate of removing and defunding the police in the areas that they would like that to happen. I think it would be an awesome experiment and would tell us a lot about human nature, the value of law enforcement, and which racial demographics are most adept at self governance without enforcement of law. Right now all we have to go on is an overarching, one-size-fits-all criminal justice system that applies to all races and genders equally. That might not be an appropriate approach to things. Let's find out.
You seriously think the justice department treats everyone equally? Please tell me you are joking.
You also realize that "defund the police", doesnt mean getting rid of police, it means reforming the police and their function right? Yes, it is a stupid slogan precisely because it makes people like your self pretend like it means no law enforcement, but that isnt really what it means. It means let's create a new way of looking at law enforcement, not getting rid of it altogether. (and yes, I know you can find examples of some people who want to get rid of police completely, but that isnt what the vast majority of people are wanting).
If you arent conservative then how would you best describe your ideology? Just curious.
Last edited:
You’re never going to change the behavior of law enforcement in a civilized society. Nor are
you going to 100% completely eliminate bad cops. Even racist ones.
So.., black leaders and people like LeBron James the big mouth need to work on being leaders “for their people” as he says. They need to work on being better citizens and not committing so much damn crime. We are never going to let criminals get away easily, so they need to change their behavior
Let the local government work on the police
All rioting, looting and kneeling does is further divide us
I was at a gym today in Orlando with a lot of blacks. Honestly, it was awkward now.
What do they think of me? What do they think that I think of them?
you going to 100% completely eliminate bad cops. Even racist ones.
So.., black leaders and people like LeBron James the big mouth need to work on being leaders “for their people” as he says. They need to work on being better citizens and not committing so much damn crime. We are never going to let criminals get away easily, so they need to change their behavior
Let the local government work on the police
All rioting, looting and kneeling does is further divide us
I was at a gym today in Orlando with a lot of blacks. Honestly, it was awkward now.
What do they think of me? What do they think that I think of them?
@Cubs79 I honestly get what you are saying about instead of the raw numbers look at the circumstances behind each shooting, I 100% agree with you on that. Here’s the problem though, people can look at the exact same video and come to wildly different conclusions. It’s like a block vs. charge in basketball (much different in terms of importance of course) but depending on if you were on offense or defense you’re going to see the block/charge differently. Most of the time these video’s come out I put myself in the officers shoes and think I would’ve done the same thing. Not every time, there’s been examples where the officer was wrong, but the majority of the time it happens there’s a reason the officer feared for his or her life and pulled the trigger. This situation in Atlanta you think is a murder, I think it was a necessary action by the officer to protect himself, his partner, and the people at that Wendy’s. 99.99% of the time a video comes out, you’re going to get different opinions (George Floyd being the .01, everyone agrees that was horrible).
I just want to throw this out there, it’s not what you were getting at but still: just because there’s an incident/arrest/crime/shooting/whatever and the two people involved have different color skin does not mean it was racist. The Atlanta shooting was not because the cop was white and the perp was black and the racist cop shot him. Tired of everything being about race just because the people involved are different colors, look at the situation.
We can certainly view things differently for sure, and other than the most egregious and obvious situations, we all arent going to always agree, and that is fine. But without at least viewing the circumstances, then I dont think we can really have a discussion on these types of things, which was what I was trying to get across, so at least you get what I was saying.
Everything isnt based on race for sure, but our justice system in general, does treat people differently, and often times it is black guys getting the short end of the stick. Just a few examples. If you know the Brock Turner and Kalief Browder stories, I think they highlight this perfectly. Turner is convicted of 3 counts of rape and spends a total of 3 months in county jail. Kalief Browder spent 3 years in Rikers for allegedly stealing a backpack. Hee was eventually let off, after spending 3 years in Rikers. If these situations are reversed, does anyone believe the outcomes are the same? Does a white kid from a prestigious school spend 3 years in Rikers before he is even convicted? Does a black kid only get 3 months in county jail after being convicted with 3 counts of rape? And there are countless examples of these types of things. (and I know these have to do with judges more so than cops, but still highlights how are system isnt remotely close to treating people equally).
I love this. So let’s view the circumstances.
Man A is Intoxicated and Asleep at Wendy’s. Upon failing a field sobriety test, the cops go to place this man under arrest. He then begins to fight the officers. He reaches for, obtains and fired a cop’s taser at them. He then begins to run but before he can he is shot.
Given those circumstances, which you are so keen to make sure are apparent and talked about, since man A was Armed and fired a taser at the officer the grounds for lethal force according to the APD officer manual.
“"Employees will only use that force, which is reasonable and necessary to affect an arrest, prevent an escape, necessarily restrict the movement of a prisoner, defend the officer or another from physical assault, or to accomplish other lawful objectives."
case closed Cub
those are not race issues. Those are affluent issues. Race divide is less common and socio economic class standing is more apparent. Donte Stallworth killed a man while driving intoxicated and settled out of court and is an NFL analyst. Money talks regardless of race.
Case closed?
One of the officers was FIRED, the other put on administrative leave. Apparently others had a much different interpretation of the APD Officers Manual than you.
Money certainly talks, but justice being based on someones wealth isnt a fair justice system, and white households on average make more than black households. So it is interlocked with race, even if you dont necessarily think it is racism.
This doesnt really change your point, but the Stallworth think was also kind of BS. He was barely over the legal limit and he hit a guy walking in the middle of a busy causeway. I am sure his money helped him so it doesnt change your point, but just throwing that out there.
Fired amid public pressure and the take from the APD (seeing as I know someone who works there) is that he will win a wrongful termination lawsuit as he followed the handbook. So maybe your problem is with the manual, not the actions. Sorry, you can try again if you’d like, but according to the manual the officer followed It without doing anything wrong.
He was running away, the taser couldnt even have reached them at that point. AM I defending the guys actions? No. Do I think he deserved to die for them? In my opinion no.
of course Its not Right. But money always will talk. Its less About race than people think however and more about wealth. Wealthy people (regardless of race) get away with shit we can’t.
Of course, and this is something that should be changed. THere are a lot of issues with our justice system from the bottom up. From who gets arrested to begin with, then the whole idea of bail for starters. We literally decide some people are fit to go out on the streets until their trial, while others arent, based on whether or not they can pay money. That is absurd on its face. Plea bargains are basically a scam. They are used for nothing more than to avoid a trial, which of course means that poorer people who can't afford a decent attorney are more likely to plea even if they arent guilty, not to mention they threaten them with ridiculous sentences to try and force a plea. These types of things arent justice.
don’t disagree at all. Criminal Justice reform is in my opinion something that needs an overhaul. And when you look into bad cops I think that a bad interaction with the CJ system is what makes some cops go to extremes. My buddy who works in Atlanta has arrested suspects who have done things from armed burglary to rape who have gotten out on time served (sometimes less than 2 months) because the Fulton County Court system isn’t a joke in itself.
problems with the CJ System can make the most sane cops lose faith in the system if you want an honest opinion.
Sorry bro. White cop shot a black man. End of story. Nothing more needs to be said.
Some judges are awful too for sure, but I am sure a lot of that goes to plea bargaining, which is a horrible system.
doesn’t change a thing for me. The officers were very professional and he decided he wanted to fight them
I think you’re confusing deserving to die with It being an outcome of his choices that he made fully aware of a potential consequence
Boom! Exactly. His death was a direct result of his own actions.
You’re being ridiculous. This is all because of what’s been going on. A manual is a manual. It’s not really open to interpretation
Amazing. The police have a Taser in 2020 that fires more than one shot. Who would have thought
Wow. According to this, the police have been way too LENIENT
i dont know if its true but i saw a report the two knew each other as bouncers at a club. anyone else see that?
Why would anybody want to be a cop? Or if somebody chooses to, why even respond to a call?
