"What was he doing wrong?"

[DaShuckster]

I know nothing about this case.

A poster opines that White people evidently think it is their right to walk up to any black folks in their neighborhoods and point guns at them and you respond that's "ridiculous."

Ridiculous?

This case 'you know nothing about' concerns two White people who evidently thought it was their right to run down a Black jogger in their neighborhood and attempt to stop him at gun point. When he had the gall to resist, Sonny boy 'stood his ground' and shot the guy dead in self-defense.

Yeah, nothing ridiculous about that.

 

[Crazyhole]

A poster opines that White people evidently think it is their right to walk up to any black folks in their neighborhoods and point guns at them and you respond that's "ridiculous."

Ridiculous?

This case 'you know nothing about' concerns two White people who evidently thought it was their right to run down a Black jogger in their neighborhood and attempt to stop him at gun point. When he had the gall to resist, Sonny boy 'stood his ground' and shot the guy dead in self-defense.

Yeah, nothing ridiculous about that.

So are you claiming to know everything there is to know about this case?

 

[DaShuckster]

So are you claiming to know everything there is to know about this case?

Are you saying the McMichaels are innocent?

 

[sk8knight]

Exactly the same issue in the Zimmerman, St. Pete and Jordan Davis case. Provoke someone enough and when they react and come after you, shoot them and claim self-defense. In all 4 incidents, if the shooter had minded their own business instead of actively confronting the deceased (not on their property), no one would be dead.

It’s not exactly the same as Zimmerman. In that case George wasn’t directly confronting Trayvon and was actually walking back to his car to go home when Trayvon looped back and confronted him. SYG didn’t apply in Zimmerman’s case even though Crump railed on about it for years. Zimmerman wasn’t open carrying and did not want to enact any type of a citizen’s arrest. There are many similarities but the differences are very important. The inability or lack of willingness to distinguish among the similar cases in the public narrative is causing all kinds of problems.

 

[Crazyhole]

Are you saying the McMichaels are innocent?

I'm not stupid enough to form an opinion on things before all of the facts are out. It looks like they probably are, but who knows at this point.

 

[Knight_Classes_begin_7pm]

I think their defense is going to be the citizen's arrest statute in GA. Since they saw him looking into a window of a house on a construction site, they can claim that he committed a felony which justified their actions.

He broke no laws. He looked into a house under construction.

 

[firm_bizzle]

He broke no laws. He looked into a house under construction.

Guilty.

 

[Crazyhole]

Bingo.

Its like we keep doing this and people don't learn. Thank God for a judicial system that doesn't jump to conclusions and hold on to bias as facts emerge.

 

[goodknightfl]

Are you saying the McMichaels are innocent?

I'm not, and I doubt they are, but none of us know the story as of now. They do deserve their due process, which includes the assumption of innocence. . As did the man shot.

 

[DaShuckster]

He broke no laws. He looked into a house under construction.

It was a popular neighborhood place to stop for a drink of water on a hot day.

They do deserve their due process, which includes the assumption of innocence. . As did the man shot.

Glad you remembered to add the victim.

BTW, did he get an assumption of innocence?

 

[DaShuckster]

It’s not exactly the same as Zimmerman. In that case George wasn’t directly confronting Trayvon...

Good point. Fat George was only following his victim around in the darkness with a gun.

 

[DaShuckster]

When this incident was first reported on the national news, I predicted to my wife that when the Georgia authorities finally get around to arresting the McMichaels, if the victim had any previous altercations with the law, we'll certainly hear all about them.

Guess what? I was right.

Given that Arbery was parked in his car at the time of this situation, I'm not sure this video puts the police in the best of lights. Being a Black man in Georgia must be a real blast.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...deo-shows-police-trying-use-stun-gun-n1210326

 

[sk8knight]

Good point. Fat George was only following his victim around in the darkness with a gun.

And yet Trayvon was almost home and had broken contact with George when he doubled back to hide behind a bush and jump him.

 

[NinjaKnight]

I'm not, and I doubt they are, but none of us know the story as of now. They do deserve their due process, which includes the assumption of innocence. . As did the man shot.

Agreed. These guys should get the same due process and fair trial that they gave Ahmaud.

 

[DaShuckster]

We've got people here who feel their civil rights have been violated, by God, if some store asks them to...please wear face masks!!!

Given that, one can only wonder how they'd respond to someone stalking them in the dark--for walking through a neighborhood, being stopped by the police and searched---for sitting in a car, or being chased by a pick-up truck with two dudes with guns--for getting a drink of water at a construction site.

But I guess that's a different kind of liberty, huh?

 

[Crazyhole]

We've got people here who feel their civil rights have been violated, by God, if some store asks them to...please wear face masks!!!

Given that, one can only wonder how they'd respond to someone stalking them in the dark--for walking through a neighborhood, being stopped by the police and searched---for sitting in a car, or being chased by a pick-up truck with two dudes with guns--for getting a drink of water at a construction site.

But I guess that's a different kind of liberty, huh?

Creating false equivalencies isn't necessarily a talent, but you do it better than anybody

 

[firm_bizzle]

And yet Trayvon was almost home and had broken contact with George when he doubled back to hide behind a bush and jump him.

Says George.

 

[Crazyhole]

Says George.

Why is the left still upset about Trayvon? Zimmerman basically just performed a 56th trimester abortion. Trayvon wasn't wanted and was destined to be a drain on society. I'm surprised this isn't heralded as an example on how to weed out the undesirables.

 

[chemmie]

Why is the left still upset about Trayvon? Zimmerman basically just performed a 56th trimester abortion. Trayvon wasn't wanted and was destined to be a drain on society. I'm surprised this isn't heralded as an example on how to weed out the undesirables.

...and this is why you're racist.

 

[Crazyhole]

...and this is why you're racist.

I try.

 

[Crazyhole]

The point was Democrats love some abortions. Trayvon wasn't exactly the model citizen. He was expelled from school which was the reason he was there.

He lived up to his potential. Should have been aborted earlier I guess. Maybe he could have made an adequate sex slave, which is probably why Ninja is still upset about him being shot.

 

[firm_bizzle]

Why is the left still upset about Trayvon? Zimmerman basically just performed a 56th trimester abortion. Trayvon wasn't wanted and was destined to be a drain on society. I'm surprised this isn't heralded as an example on how to weed out the undesirables.

Where is the best place to purchase hoods? I need a new one since businesses are requiring facial covering.

 

[firm_bizzle]

The point was Democrats love some abortions. Trayvon wasn't exactly the model citizen. He was expelled from school which was the reason he was there.

I guess that's one way to reduce class size.

 

[sk8knight]

Says George.

There was other evidence that supported it presented at trial. It wasn’t just George’s word.

 

[sk8knight]

Where is the best place to purchase hoods? I need a new one since businesses are requiring facial covering.

Fairvilla Megastore.

 

[UCFKnight85]

Are you saying the McMichaels are innocent?

I think he's saying that maybe everyone should let the court case play out to establish every fact possible before deciding 100% either way.

Crazy huh?

Then again I'm talking to the guy who still thinks the Covington kids harassed a poor lil Native American based upon a deceptively edited video, and a guy who refuses to watch the full, undoctored video.

 

[KnighttimeJoe]

I think he's saying that maybe everyone should let the court case play out to establish every fact possible before deciding 100% either way.

Crazy huh?

Then again I'm talking to the guy who still thinks the Covington kids harassed a poor lil Native American based upon a deceptively edited video, and a guy who refuses to watch the full, undoctored video.

THEY WERE SMIRKING!!!!!

Here, I will do the opposite of what der shookboi did with regard to the Arbery shooting:

ARBERY WAS WEARING CARGO SHORTS!!!!!! NO ONE RUNS IN CARGO SHORTS!!!!! DUDE WAS UP TO NO GOOD AND PROBABLY GOT WHAT WAS COMING TO HIM!!!! AHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

 

[sk8knight]

We've got people here who feel their civil rights have been violated, by God, if some store asks them to...please wear face masks!!!

Given that, one can only wonder how they'd respond to someone stalking them in the dark--for walking through a neighborhood, being stopped by the police and searched---for sitting in a car, or being chased by a pick-up truck with two dudes with guns--for getting a drink of water at a construction site.

But I guess that's a different kind of liberty, huh?

Why would you conflate being stopped by the police with being chased by 2 random dudes with guns? Those are 2 very different scenarios and should evoke 2 very different thought patterns in people. What is your purpose in trying to create an equivalence there?

 

[DaShuckster]

Why would you conflate being stopped by the police with being chased by 2 random dudes with guns? Those are 2 very different scenarios and should evoke 2 very different thought patterns in people. What is your purpose in trying to create an equivalence there?

I'm just putting myself in this guy's shoes. Obviously, there's a world of difference between being chased by two yahoos with guns from being stopped by the police. But, along with Fat George's stalking, they reflect a total disregard for an individual's civil rights.

• What's up with some strange dude following me through the neighborhood with a gun?
• WTF? Why are these yahoos chasing me down in their pick-up truck with shotguns?
• Why in the world is a police officer stopping me for -- sitting -- in my car??? Why isn't he telling me what the reason is for ID'ing me and requesting to search my vehicle? Why has he called for back-up? Why in the f*k is one of them trying to TASE me??!?

Seriously, if this shit happened to you or me, we'd be livid about our treatment. This stuff happens to Black men all the time. I have a friend who told me she and her husband had a serious sit-down with their son when be became a teenager -- and again when he got his drivers license -- telling him that whatever the situation, NEVER get angry, frustrated, and/or talk back to a law enforcement officer about the way he's treating you. No matter how trivial the stop, the consequences could be deadly serious.

 

[sk8knight]

I'm just putting myself in this guy's shoes. Obviously, there's a world of difference between being chased by two yahoos with guns from being stopped by the police. But, along with Fat George's stalking, they reflect a total disregard for an individual's civil rights.

• What's up with some strange dude following me through the neighborhood with a gun?
• WTF? Why are these yahoos chasing me down in their pick-up truck with shotguns?
• Why in the world is a police officer stopping me for -- sitting -- in my car??? Why isn't he telling me what the reason is for ID'ing me and requesting to search my vehicle? Why has he called for back-up? Why in the f*k is one of them trying to TASE me??!?

Seriously, if this shit happened to you or me, we'd be livid about our treatment. This stuff happens to Black men all the time. I have a friend who told me she and her husband had a serious sit-down with their son when be became a teenager -- and again when he got his drivers license -- telling him that whatever the situation, NEVER get angry, frustrated, and/or talk back to a law enforcement officer about the way he's treating you. No matter how trivial the stop, the consequences could be deadly serious.

I understand what you're getting at and it is good to try to put yourselves into scenarios in order to form your opinions. I will say that you drive me off in the prelude when you say that Zimmerman stalked him. That is a blatantly false characterization of what occurred and is meant to stir the emotions in the absence of actual fact. Here is the definition of stalking "a course of conduct directed at a specific person that involves repeated (two or more occasions) visual or physical proximity, nonconsensual communication, or verbal, written, or implied threats, or a combination thereof, that would cause a reasonable person fear." Obviously, it didn't meet the conditions for stalking. Which is important, because stalking is very bad and should be. Don't devalue our view of stalking by applying it incorrect for an invalid emotional appeal.

Also, let's say you see a person in your neighborhood that triggers all of your alarm bells. Are you saying that you are wrong if you walk to the end of your street and call the police on them? How about if you go up and try to talk to them to see what they're up to. Is that wrong as well? Where do you draw the line?

 

[DaShuckster]

I will say that you drive me off in the prelude when you say that Zimmerman stalked him. That is a blatantly false characterization of what occurred and is meant to stir the emotions in the absence of actual fact.

Okay, Okay, 'stalked' is not the right word to use. But he was clearly following him -- if that wasn't the case, Trayvon wouldn't have (as you've speculated) jumped him.

let's say you see a person in your neighborhood that triggers all of your alarm bells.

Triggers all of your alarm bells?

Pardon me if my gender and skin color causes YOU to question ME. That's the heart of this discussion. Is that my problem or yours?

 

[sk8knight]

I'm just putting myself in this guy's shoes. Obviously, there's a world of difference between being chased by two yahoos with guns from being stopped by the police. But, along with Fat George's stalking, they reflect a total disregard for an individual's civil rights.

• What's up with some strange dude following me through the neighborhood with a gun?
• WTF? Why are these yahoos chasing me down in their pick-up truck with shotguns?
• Why in the world is a police officer stopping me for -- sitting -- in my car??? Why isn't he telling me what the reason is for ID'ing me and requesting to search my vehicle? Why has he called for back-up? Why in the f*k is one of them trying to TASE me??!?

Seriously, if this shit happened to you or me, we'd be livid about our treatment. This stuff happens to Black men all the time. I have a friend who told me she and her husband had a serious sit-down with their son when be became a teenager -- and again when he got his drivers license -- telling him that whatever the situation, NEVER get angry, frustrated, and/or talk back to a law enforcement officer about the way he's treating you. No matter how trivial the stop, the consequences could be deadly serious.

Separating your two issues into 2 posts.

It is good and right for parents to teach their children how to handle interactions with law enforcement. I wish law enforcement would do more public education on what to expect, how to act, and what your recourse is if you feel the interaction didn't go correctly. It is up to us, as a society, to hold the agencies and judicial system accountable to honor those complaints. We do that through our vote and public pressure.

But we must make sure that we understand when it is right to apply that pressure and those votes and when it is wrong. There are bad police, fewer and fewer every day, but there are still police out there that think force is the solution to everything. To be fair, there are a lot of people that do bad things in America that also think that force is the solution to everything and don't respect anything but another show of force. Nonetheless, we want to be civilized and hold our law enforcement to a higher standard than we hold the people that do bad things.

To that end, police have a long list of procedures they follow and departmental policies and legal statutes and precedents governing their actions. In the overwhelming majority of interactions between police and the general public, the police are following all of these and are well within their duties and responsibilities and doing what we ask of them. This is their job, they do this every day, and they understand what they're doing far better than the person that interacts with a police officer once in a blue moon. Yet, people don't really care to understand the process nor do they really care that they're being treated fairly. For the most part, they really only care how badly they're going to get in trouble and if they can not get in trouble. They may not even agree that they did anything wrong, but taking it up with the police in anything other than a civil discussion is the absolute wrong way to handle it.

Of course, there is a pervasive combative aspect from a percentage of the general public from the moment the police officer initiates the interaction. A lot of this comes from the same people that the same officers interact with repeatedly. Some officers endure a great deal of harassment when they have to go and do their jobs in a good number of communities in America. This never makes the news. Ever.

Bottom line, there are 2 sides to the story and both have very valid reasons and points. I'm not really sure how this gets better. It sure as hell won't with the media and other involved people throwing in a lot of false noise into the process.

 

[sk8knight]

Okay, Okay, 'stalked' is not the right word to use. But he was clearly following him -- if that wasn't the case, Trayvon wouldn't have (as you've speculated) jumped him.
Triggers all of your alarm bells?

Pardon me if my gender and skin color causes YOU to question ME. That's the heart of this discussion. Is that my problem or yours?

But he wasn't following him anymore when the evidence entered into court showed that Trayvon attacked him. It isn't my speculation, it is entered facts in a trial in a court of law.

Why is it always -isms with you? There are all sorts of factors that may trigger alarm bells that have nothing to do with racism or sexism or any triggers you want to stigmatize people with.

 

[DaShuckster]

It is good and right for parents to teach their children how to handle interactions with law enforcement. I wish law enforcement would do more public education on what to expect, how to act, and what your recourse is if you feel the interaction didn't go correctly.

I grew up in a small town (pop. 6500). One night when I was 17 or 18, I was driving around town with a buddy when one of the town's cops pulled me over. My buddy and I weren't drinking or doing anything wrong so I was flabbergasted why I was being pulled over.

When he approached my car, I asked why I had been stopped. He didn't answer me and instead flashed his flashlight at my and my buddy's face and in the front and back seats of my car. I again asked what I was being stopped for. (Being a teenager, I recall asking the second time around with a bit of an attitude.) He ignored me and then in a "I'm not taking any shit" voice, asked for my drivers license.

I handed it to him and when he saw my last name, his face lightened and he asked, "Are you Joe's boy?" (everybody knows everybody in small towns and my Dad was a longtime mail carrier) I said yes. He smiled, handed my license back to me and said to have a nice night.

Something tells me that if my friend and I were Black and my teenage attitude had been the same, that evening would have turned out very differently.

 

[DaShuckster]

Why is it always -isms with you? There are all sorts of factors that may trigger alarm bells that have nothing to do with racism or sexism or any triggers you want to stigmatize people with.

Yeah, it's my "isms" that are the problem.

God forbid that I question what "triggers" your alarm bells. It's one thing to have these triggers. It's quite another to feel compelled to act upon them without any provocation.

 

[sk8knight]

I grew up in a small town (pop. 6500). One night when I was 17 or 18, I was driving around town with a buddy when one of the town's cops pulled me over. My buddy and I weren't drinking or doing anything wrong so I was flabbergasted why I was being pulled over.

When he approached my car, I asked why I had been stopped. He didn't answer me and instead flashed his flashlight at my and my buddy's face and in the front and back seats of my car. I again asked what I was being stopped for. (Being a teenager, I recall asking the second time around with a bit of an attitude.) He ignored me and then in a "I'm not taking any shit" voice, asked for my drivers license.

I handed it to him and when he saw my last name, his face lightened and he asked, "Are you Joe's boy?" (everybody knows everybody in small towns and my Dad was a longtime mail carrier) I said yes. He smiled, handed my license back to me and said to have a nice night.

Something tells me that if my friend and I were Black and my teenage attitude had been the same, that evening would have turned out very differently.

You may very well be right. But just because an officer approached you with a strong command presence does not mean that he was looking for a fight. There are many situations where displaying command presence from the outset keeps there from being any issues throughout the interaction. As it is unfair to prejudge a minority or a youth or anyone based solely on a single physical characteristic, it is unfair to prejudge a LEO based upon them being a LEO.

I have 3 generations of LEO in my family, some of whom have been recognized by the FBI as national leaders and experts. From what I've seen, police departments are far, far cleaner now than they ever have.

 

[sk8knight]

Yeah, it's my "isms" that are the problem.

God forbid that I question what "triggers" your alarm bells. It's one thing to have these triggers. It's quite another to feel compelled to act upon them without any provocation.

Don't you feel like you're coming from the wrong place when the only thing that you think can raise alarm bells is a person's skin color?

 

[DaShuckster]

Don't you feel like you're coming from the wrong place when the only thing that you think can raise alarm bells is a person's skin color?

Silly me. Now that you mention it, I'm sure it was the timing of Arbery's midday jog or perhaps it was the menacing cut of his jogging shorts.*

 

[sk8knight]

Silly me. Now that you mention it, I'm sure it was the timing of Arbery's midday jog or perhaps it was the menacing cut of his jogging shorts.*

What does that comment have to do with me asking you if it's ok to start a conversation with someone who you think is acting suspiciously and you basically calling me a racist?

 

[DaShuckster]

What does that comment have to do with me asking you if it's ok to start a conversation with someone who you think is acting suspiciously and you basically calling me a racist?

What is 'acting suspiciously'? He spent 2-3 minutes at the construction site getting a drink of water (like many other people in the neighborhood did.) Did the McMichaels' 'start a conversation' or jump in their pick-up truck with shotguns?

I live in a neighborhood association with a stocked fishing lake for catch and release. There are all kinds of nonresidents (typically extended family and friends) who fish at the lake. Last year a young Black family moved into the area (but not in the association) and the father and his little boy have been seen fishing on the lake.

This month's Association newsletter reported that our Board is considering posting 'NO TRESPASSING' signs because of a, quote, "significant increase" in the number of nonresidents seen in the area.

I've lived in this neighborhood a long time and haven't noticed this supposed "significant increase" in nonresidents. Gee, I wonder what prompted this? Any idea?