The Ultimate USiF

[Guinness_Knight]

Reflecting on our rivalry…

You couldn’t hope to write a more insane story.

UCF builds a program incrementally starting at D3 and USiF is gifted a Big East invite.

UCF welcomes the natural rivalry and USiF responds with a level of continued smugness that is still mind blowing.

Years ago UCF wanted to continue the series and USiF didn’t want to as they were above us/moving on to bigger opportunities and looking at us in their rear view mirrors.

Fast forward to now…UCF is actually living in the reality USiF was trying create for themselves.

The irony is unreal. 😎

 

[SCKnight]

I also think for the most part it has finally sunk in to the cows. We did it the right way. Karma is a bitch which is part of the reason I think we need to leave the door open on this rivalry

 

[Retnuhrace]

I’d be open to keeping the rivalry going… but only if it’s at the bounce house each year

 

[80'sKnight]

Moving on up...... and the best part is the TV contract which has slammed the door on inviting any G5 in, and would you like to guess if that's not added into every new contract? Sad for Memphis, SMU and up and comers like Coastal, Louisiana and others that might succeed, which of course will never be usf.

 

[OtterKnight]

We did it the right way.

I always hear this but what is "the right way?" Would we have not gone into the big east if we could have in 2005 like they did, with our home at the Citrus Bowl and all?

Yes we spent a long time "building" a program but UCF was also building a university all that time.

When USF entered football in 1997, it was a lot different than us entering football in 1979.

 

[B R Knightz2]

No brainer to keep this rivalry going when the schedules can get aligned…9 game Big12 schedule with usf every year and now we only need to “find” two games a year…Charge On

 

[BlakNGoldAllDay]

No thanks. They are boring.

 

[UCFSig]

No brainer to keep this rivalry going when the schedules can get aligned…9 game Big12 schedule with usf every year and now we only need to “find” two games a year…Charge On

Per Terry, the Big 12 wants one of the two non-conference games to be a P5 school so that leaves one available. We'll likely use that to schedule a cupcake to start the season.

 

[beelit47]

Per Terry, the Big 12 wants one of the two non-conference games to be a P5 school so that leaves one available. We'll likely use that to schedule a cupcake to start the season.

Id rather throw that bone to ecu

 

[KnightsofGroveland]

I love UCF, but one thing we lose sight of...we weren't actually super visionaries when it came to the stadium. Florida Citrus Sports wanted to renovate the Citrus Bowl and basically told UCF to find another place to play for a year. They didn't care two licks about us, so that forced our hand to start exploring options. I think if FCS would have made UCF a priority and worked the renovations out around us we'd still be playing there today...

I wouldn't trade the Bounce House for anything else, and it is singlehandedly the reason we've built the program that we have today, but we absolutely benefited from circumstance here.

 

[rainman614]

I love UCF, but one thing we lose sight of...we weren't actually super visionaries when it came to the stadium. Florida Citrus Sports wanted to renovate the Citrus Bowl and basically told UCF to find another place to play for a year. They didn't care two licks about us, so that forced our hand to start exploring options. I think if FCS would have made UCF a priority and worked the renovations out around us we'd still be playing there today...

I wouldn't trade the Bounce House for anything else, and it is singlehandedly the reason we've built the program that we have today, but we absolutely benefited from circumstance here.

Florida Citrus Sports and the City (Buddy Dyer) wanted UCF to foot the bill for a large renovation project. GOL wanted UCF to invest in 2 things for him to stay long term - an indoor practice facility and an OCS. The reason the stadium was allowed to be occupied for the first game was that UCF had to ensure everyone had access to free water (aka Water Fountains). Because they were not installed prior to Game 1, UCF had to provide free water to everyone. I still remember them running out during the game and having to use the plastic cups for soda out. They also had several hoses where they were "misting" people because they were over heating. I still think it was one of the hottest September games ever played. We rattled Texas SOOOO much because of how loud the Bounce House got!!!! It was also a shock when the place did start bouncing with everyone jumping up and down! I still have my ticket hanging in my home office! One of the best games EVER!

 

[Retnuhrace]

Florida Citrus Sports and the City (Buddy Dyer) wanted UCF to foot the bill for a large renovation project. GOL wanted UCF to invest in 2 things for him to stay long term - an indoor practice facility and an OCS. The reason the stadium was allowed to be occupied for the first game was that UCF had to ensure everyone had access to free water (aka Water Fountains). Because they were not installed prior to Game 1, UCF had to provide free water to everyone. I still remember them running out during the game and having to use the plastic cups for soda out. They also had several hoses where they were "misting" people because they were over heating. I still think it was one of the hottest September games ever played. We rattled Texas SOOOO much because of how loud the Bounce House got!!!! It was also a shock when the place did start bouncing with everyone jumping up and down! I still have my ticket hanging in my home office! One of the best games EVER!

If I remember correctly, many of the people who suffered from heat exhaustion got it from standing in line outside of the stadium. Those lines were a mess for that first game

 

[OtterKnight]

Afternoon game in September. People didn't know what to expect in an aluminum stadium. Also first week of tailgating. Some people overdid it with the alcohol.

 

[Knight_Light]

I love UCF, but one thing we lose sight of...we weren't actually super visionaries when it came to the stadium. Florida Citrus Sports wanted to renovate the Citrus Bowl and basically told UCF to find another place to play for a year. They didn't care two licks about us, so that forced our hand to start exploring options. I think if FCS would have made UCF a priority and worked the renovations out around us we'd still be playing there today...

I wouldn't trade the Bounce House for anything else, and it is singlehandedly the reason we've built the program that we have today, but we absolutely benefited from circumstance here.

Mayor Dyer back then was a main reason why UCF got "kicked out" of the Citrus Bowl...as UCF tried to get the city to do what Jacksonville did (work on one side of the stadium per year) but the city said no...and told UCF to get lost.

Turns out UCF did bolt...built their own stadium (and arena)...and it wasn't till a few years later did Orlando finally start renovating the old Citrus Bowl.

UCF Football wouldn't be where it is today and headed tomorrow (Big 12) if UCF remained playing in a rented off campus stadium.

 

[SCKnight]

I always hear this but what is "the right way?" Would we have not gone into the big east if we could have in 2005 like they did, with our home at the Citrus Bowl and all?

Yes we spent a long time "building" a program but UCF was also building a university all that time.

When USF entered football in 1997, it was a lot different than us entering football in 1979.

We started at the bottom building a foundation of fans who loved the team no matter how bad or disappointing the outcome. They started in D-1.

We hired an old school coach who was well respected in the college football world who preached discipline and academic success. JL used the Miami method of recruiting questionable qualifiers and brought the same culture.

We built facilities that we could afford and which would serve our purpose. We did not care about what others thought. They are building Uber expensive facilities simply because they are afraid to look like us.

We embraced CUSA and AAC as our home and took up the task of dominating as a method of getting national attention. They looked down their noses at the AAC instead taking the “to be the best you have to play the best” as a way of cowtowing to the P5 snobs.

They sought rivalries from UM and FSU who wanted nothing from them but a schedule filler. We embraced the hate and made the cow game a focus, not a chore.

In short they thought they were better than doing the things that made us successful. Some still think this way. That all they need is the right coach. They need the right coach with the right culture, they need the right AD, they need the right President. They need to build a culture of modesty and winning In conference before the can look ahead to leaving it

 

[knight_tracker]

Moving on up...... and the best part is the TV contract which has slammed the door on inviting any G5 in, and would you like to guess if that's not added into every new contract? Sad for Memphis, SMU and up and comers like Coastal, Louisiana and others that might succeed, which of course will never be usf.

SMU will end up in the PAC if they stay together.

 

[Shark19]

SMU will end up in the PAC if they stay together.

Depending on how hard they get hit by defections, SD State, Boise, and Memphis might also be targets

 

[80'sKnight]

Depending on how hard they get hit by defections, SD State, Boise, and Memphis might also be targets

Then they become the AAC 2? Downgraded.

 

[Knight59]

I’d be open to keeping the rivalry going… but only if it’s at the bounce house each year

2 for 1s.

 

[Shark19]

Then they become the AAC 2? Downgraded.

Or Mountain West West

 

[Shark19]

2 for 1s.

No thanks, not worth putting up with them just for some easy wins

 

[OtterKnight]

We started at the bottom building a foundation of fans who loved the team no matter how bad or disappointing the outcome. They started in D-1.

They started football in D1 because the university was already D1 before they had football. Other sports count too, so you can't be D1 soccer and then start D2 or D3 football. We started football in 1979 as a much smaller university. D3 means no athletic scholarships.

hired an old school coach who was well respected in the college football world who preached discipline and academic success. JL used the Miami method of recruiting questionable qualifiers and brought the same culture.

JL started their program from a trailer on campus. I don't think someone like GOL would have gone there when JL started.

We built facilities that we could afford and which would serve our purpose. We did not care about what others thought. They are building Uber expensive facilities simply because they are afraid to look like us.

I agree here. Money from USF's 2007 days should have been spent on an OCS in hindsight, but it's harder to justify to those who don't really get it when you're playing in an NFL stadium that you're filling up and aren't getting kicked out of.

FCS did us a favor in that respect.

We embraced CUSA and AAC as our home and took up the task of dominating as a method of getting national attention. They looked down their noses at the AAC instead taking the “to be the best you have to play the best” as a way of cowtowing to the P5 snobs.

They sought rivalries from UM and FSU who wanted nothing from them but a schedule filler. We embraced the hate and made the cow game a focus, not a chore.

These things are true but they happened largely after the fall of USF from their heyday. They've kept digging since then, no doubt.

In short they thought they were better than doing the things that made us successful. Some still think this way. That all they need is the right coach. They need the right coach with the right culture, they need the right AD, they need the right President. They need to build a culture of modesty and winning In conference before the can look ahead to leaving it

All true, well mostly. Tulane got the right coach and is playing for the title. Things turn around fast when the pieces are in place. USF did well when Flowers was there.

I guess my point is that on some level all the things you and others say about this are true, but they seem to me to be more a result of circumstances rather than conscious a/b choices with all else being equal. We have a different history to them. They were much more established as a university when they started football. It had the ability to build up quickly. Things are often said here like "building up a fanbase slowly over time," but in their case, they started playing football and a lot of people showed up. You don't have a lot of control over that kind of stuff, nor would you turn people away at the door. "Sorry, 15000 only this week; we're building up a fanbase slowly." They didn't really have the opportunity to do it the way we did, in certain ways.

Either way, I'm glad my school ended up the way it is. We are the only school to ever play in all of D3, 2, 1AA, and 1A. I have long thought that to be pretty cool.

 

[SCKnight]

They started football in D1 because the university was already D1 before they had football. Other sports count too, so you can't be D1 soccer and then start D2 or D3 football. We started football in 1979 as a much smaller university. D3 means no athletic scholarships.


JL started their program from a trailer on campus. I don't think someone like GOL would have gone there when JL started.


I agree here. Money from USF's 2007 days should have been spent on an OCS in hindsight, but it's harder to justify to those who don't really get it when you're playing in an NFL stadium that you're filling up and aren't getting kicked out of.

FCS did us a favor in that respect.


These things are true but they happened largely after the fall of USF from their heyday. They've kept digging since then, no doubt.


All true, well mostly. Tulane got the right coach and is playing for the title. Things turn around fast when the pieces are in place. USF did well when Flowers was there.

I guess my point is that on some level all the things you and others say about this are true, but they seem to me to be more a result of circumstances rather than conscious a/b choices with all else being equal. We have a different history to them. They were much more established as a university when they started football. It had the ability to build up quickly. Things are often said here like "building up a fanbase slowly over time," but in their case, they started playing football and a lot of people showed up. You don't have a lot of control over that kind of stuff, nor would you turn people away at the door. "Sorry, 15000 only this week; we're building up a fanbase slowly." They didn't really have the opportunity to do it the way we did, in certain ways.

Either way, I'm glad my school ended up the way it is. We are the only school to ever play in all of D3, 2, 1AA, and 1A. I have long thought that to be pretty cool.

While I appreciate your response it is obvious that you have not been around long. You are looking though glasses with recentcy bias. College football was a different world back them., and each of these items of culture and mission were hotly debated at the time. I witnessed JL's recruiting and the culture which mimics Miami in the 80s. It was intentional and JL admitted that. JL's problem really was that he butted heads with Judy who wanted her cake and eat it too. JL lost that battle. Skip Holtz was given the impossible task of maintaining success while increasing the academic recruiting standards. Impossible because usf did not have that kind of swag.

UCF was in the cellar when GOL was hired we were the lowest of the low. We were able to get him because of his resume' scandal. Laughable now, but a big deal at the time. usf unmercifully ragged on GOL as being a liar etc. They would never of hired him because of their pride. UCF stuck with GOL understanding that it took time to build a program. usf jumped from coach to coach expecting each of them to be JL

The issue on the OCS is not hindsight. It was hotly debated at the time of the construction of the bounce house. How to create a program culture, how to connect students and alumni, how to make money from sponsors, parking, concessions. When the Bounce House was built they ragged on it endlessly. In fact when they did their survey for their own OCS earlier, part of their own requirements was that it could not be a budget OCS like UCF's. A Direct reference. So when the price tag came in too high they took no action. They convinced themselves that they would be better off at Ray Jay then to suggest something they could afford. Meanwhile FAU built a very nice stadium which suits them fine.

UCF embraced their conference at every step. usf only offered distain once the Big East collapsed. That is a choice not a result of circumstance. The circumstances is that their program was not as advanced as they thought. UCF still faces the possibility that programs leave the B12. If they do and UCF is left behind we will continue to support, I feel confident of that.

They also did not have people show up immediately. Only once they got in the Big East did that take off. A good portion of that was visiting fans and people with little or no connection to the University. No you cannot control that, but you can make intentional efforts to bring in the students. GOL was famous for that. He worked really hard to get students to the games. There were all kinds of promotions. had a few good seasons but always cratered at the end.

Everything has some circumstance in it, but there has always been a distinct culture gap between UCF and usf. That gap was due to deliberate decisions and believe me, the discussions go waaay back